Searching for my roots - Molchanov
Molchanov in Koursk and Bryansk area
Tasha56Ïî÷åòíûé ó÷àcòíèê  Ðîññèÿ Ñîîáùåíèé: 12643 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 41412 | Íàâåðõ ##
9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 10:29 9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 10:58 gach[q] Áðÿíñêèé îáëÇÀÃÑ[/q]
Óïðàâëåíèå ÇÀÃÑ Áðÿíñêîé îáëàñòè. Òåïåðü ïîñìîòðèòå íà ñòðóêòóðó ýòîãî óïðàâëåíèÿ - Ñòðóêòóðà óïðàâëåíèÿ çàïèñè àêòîâ ãðàæäàíñêîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ Áðÿíñêîé îáëàñòè http://www.zagsbrk.ru/DOC/struktura.pdfÊàê è Ìîñêâà Áðÿíñê - ãîðîä ñ ðàéîíàìè è ðàéîííûìè îòäåëàìè ÇÀÃÑ. Çàïðîñ î ïîâòîðíîì ñâèäåòåëüñòâå î ðîæäåíèè (çàïîëíÿåòñÿ ôîðìà 18) íàïðàâëÿåòñÿ â òåððèòîðèàëüíûé îòäåë ÇÀÃÑ, ãäå áûë âûäàí îðèãèíàë äîêóìåíòà. Äà, (ïðèìåð) Âû - óðîæåíêà Ìîñêâû, íî äîêóìåíò ãðàæäàíñêîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ (î ðîæäåíèè, áðàêå, ñìåðòè) Âû áóäåòå èñêàòü íå â Óïðàâëåíèè ÇÀÃÑ Ìîñêâû, à â àðõèâå îïðåäåëåííîãî ðàéîííîãî îòäåëåíèÿ ÇÀÃÑ (âûäàâøåì êîãäà-òî îðèãèíàë äîêóìåíòà....ÇÀÃÑû â Ðîññèè ïîÿâèëèñü â 1918 ãîäó, â Ñèáèðè â 1920).... Âû ñ÷èòàåòå, ÷òî îòâåò ïîëó÷åí íå ôîðìàëüíûé (ôîðìà 35)? ÇÀÃÑû ïîäòâåðæäàþò ôàêò ãðàæäàíñêîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ, îïèðàÿñü íà äàííûå, âïèñàííûå â ôîðìó 18 (çàïðîñà), íî íå çàíèìàþòñÿ ïîèñêîì ïî ðàéîííûì îòäåëåíèÿì ÇÀÃÑ (òî÷íåå...ïîèñêîì â ïðÿìîì ñìûñëå áåç óêàçàííûõ êîîðäèíàò). Îíè íå ãåíåàëîãè è ïîèñêîì ðîäîñëîâèÿ íå çàíèìàþòñÿ..... Îá ýòîì ñîîáùàåòñÿ è â ïîñëåäíåì ïèñüìå èç Êóðñêîé îáëàñòè..... [q] You believe that no response has been received the formal form (35)? Offices confirm that civil status, relying on data entered in form 18 (the request), but not seeking for regional offices ZAGS (more precisely. Search in the truest sense without the specified coordinates). They are not a genealogy search and genealogies are not engaged ...
This was reported in the last letter of the Kursk region ...[/q]
Ñìîæåòå ýòî äîñëîâíî ïåðåâåñòè ó÷àñòíèêó ôîðóìà? P.S. Ïðàáàáóøêà áûëà ðîæäåíà â 1924 ãîäó. Áðÿíñê â ýòîò ãîä (ïî ÀÒÄ) áûë öåíòðîì Áðÿíñêîé ãóáåðíèè. Àäìèíèñòðàòèâíûå åäèíèöû áûëè äðóãèå. Óêàçàíî, ÷òî îíà áûëà åâàíãåëèñòêîé (ïî íàøåìó áàïòèñòêîé)......íå áûëà êðåùåíà â ïðàâîñëàâíîé öåðêâè (íîâîîáðàùåííàÿ?)....è ò.ä. è ò.ï.  Áðÿíñêå ìíîãî (áûëî è åñòü) ìîíàñòûðåé, õðàìîâ, öåðêâåé... http://transer.org/ --- ✅ Âîïðîñû ïî ïîèñêó, àäðåñîâàííûå ìíå, ïîæàëóéñòà, êðåïèòå â òåìó äíåâíèêà >>>
ÄÍÅÂÍÈÊ >> (×åðíèãîâñêàÿ, Êîñòðîìñêàÿ ãóá., Àëòàéñêèé êðàé, Ìîñêâà..) | | |
| kbg_dnepr
Äíèïðî (áûâø. Äíåïðîïåòðîâñê)
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7047
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 4363
| Íàâåðõ ##
9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 11:28 9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 11:35 orionbuffe
They write in the answer, that you can't get the answer directly from ZAGS, you have to contact Russian Consulat in the contry you live, show them papers confirming that Tamara is your relative, and then they will sent the inquiry their way.
But what do you need in fact? The paper about Tamara's birth or information about her parents, their parents etc.? In this case there may be other ways. To seek those other ways, we must know available facts.
What I understand:
your gggparents were Semion and Angelina Tikhonovna Molchanov. What else do you know about them? Patronym of Semion? Was Tamara their first child? How old may they have been 1922? What do you know about their status - farmers, merchants, workers, clerics, nobles?
Were there relatives, who stayed in Russia?
Molchanov is not a rare name, so it doesn't have much sense to search for other Molchanovs in the region, they may be not connected.
I looked up the losses in the WWI svrt.ru/1914/0o-1914.htm; there were no Molchanovs from Bryansk. ---
Êàòåðèíà
Ãëóøàê (Áðÿíñê.) Êîâàëåâ, Ôåäîñåíêî (Ìîãèëåâñê.)
Îãëîòêîâ (Ãîðáàò. ó. ÍÃÃ) Àëüêèí Æàðêîâ Êóëüäèøîâ Áàëàíäèí (Ñèìá. ãóá.)
Êëûøêèí Âëàñåíêî Ñàêóíîâ Êó÷åðÿâåíêî (Ãëóõîâ)
Êèðè÷åíêî Áîíäàðåíêî Áåëîóñ Ñòðàøíûé (Íîâîìîñê. Äíåïðîï.) | | |
gachóøëà èç æèçíè 13.07.2019 ã. Ñâåòëàÿ ïàìÿòü  Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 1108 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2009 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 2668 | Íàâåðõ ##
9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 22:17 orionbuffe, this is a translation of your post. ) Ïåðåâåäó íà âñÿêèé ñëó÷àé, âäðóã êòî-òî åùå çàõî÷åòñÿ ïîäêëþ÷èòüñÿ è ÷òî-òî ïîñîâåòîâàòü. Õîòÿ ÿ íå çíàþ ïîë, â ïðîôèëå óêàçàí ìóæ÷èíà, íî ïî÷åìó-òî êàæåòñÿ, ÷òî ýòî æåíùèíà.  Ïðåæäå âñåãî ÿ ñâÿçàëñÿ ñ Ðîññèéñêèì êîíñóëüñòâîì â Áåëüãèè, è òàì ìíå ñêàçàëè, ÷òî íå ïîìîãóò ïîìî÷ü, ÷òî ÿ äîëæåí îáðàòèòüñÿ â ÇÀÃÑ. (È äàëè ìíå êîíòàêòû). À äëÿ Êóðñêîãî ÇÀÃÑà ÿ íå ìîãó äîêàçàòü ðîäñòâî, ïîñêîëüêó ÿ çàïðàøèâàë çàïèñü î ðîæäåíèè ñåñòðû Òàìàðû, Âàëåíòèíû. (À ïîòîìêè Âàëåíòèíû æèâóò ãäå-òî â Êàíàäå). Ìíå íóæíà çàïèñü î ðîæäåíèè, ÷òîáû óçíàòü ÷òî-òî î ðîäèòåëÿõ Òàìàðû. Èëè ïîëó÷èòü õîòü êàêóþ-òî äðóãóþ èíôîðìàöèþ, êîòîðàÿ ïîìîæåò ìíå äâèãàòüñÿ äàëüøå. ß íè÷åãî áîëüøå íå çíàþ î Ñåìåíå è (Àíãå)Ëèíå. Òîëüêî ÷òî îòåö Ñåìåíà áûë êóëàêîì. (ß ïûòàëñÿ èñêàòü ñïèñêè êóëàêîâ, íå çíàþ, åñòü ëè òàêèå). Ìàòü Àíãåëèíû áûëà óêðàèíêîé. Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, ýòî âñå, ÷òî ÿ çíàþ. Ó ìåíÿ åñòü èõ ôîòî, ñäåëàííîå â ãîä, êîãäà Òàìàðå áûëî 30, îíè íå âûãëÿäÿò òàêèìè óæ ñòàðûìè, äóìàþ, îíè ðîäèëèñü ïðèìåðíî â 1895-1900. Äâå åå ñåñòðû îñòàëèñü â Ðîññèè, îäíà Ëþäìèëà (Ëþñÿ), æèëà â Ðîñòîâå-íà-Äîíó, îíà óìåðëà. Îíà áûëà êàê-òî ñâÿçàíà ñ ÊÃÁ. Âòîðàÿ, Èðà, âåðîÿòíî, â Êóðñêå, íàâåðíîå, åå òîæå óæå íåò. (Ïîñëåäíèé ðàç íàøà ñåìüÿ ñâÿçûâàëàñü ñ íèìè â 1960-ì). Èíîãäà ÿ æàëåþ, ÷òî íå ðîäèëñÿ ðàíüøå. Áëàãîäàðþ âàñ âñåõ, âû ïîòðÿñàþùèå. ---
Âñå ëè÷íûå äàííûå, ìîè è ìîåé ñåìüè, ðàçìåùåíû ìíîþ íà ñàéòå ñ ñîãëàñèÿ ðîäñòâåííèêîâ
×åðìåíñêèå (Êåðåíñê, Ñàðàòîâ), Ëóïåéêî/Ëóïåéêà (Ëèòâà, ÑØÀ), Ðåíêå è Âåíãëèíñêèå (Êèåâ, Ðàäîìûøëü), Êâÿòêîâñêèå (Ìèíñêàÿ ãóá), Åëîçèíû (Àðêàäàê) | | |
gachóøëà èç æèçíè 13.07.2019 ã. Ñâåòëàÿ ïàìÿòü Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 1108 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2009 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 2668 | Íàâåðõ ##
9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 23:51 Tasha56 íàïèñàëà: [q] Çàïðîñ î ïîâòîðíîì ñâèäåòåëüñòâå î ðîæäåíèè (çàïîëíÿåòñÿ ôîðìà 18) íàïðàâëÿåòñÿ â òåððèòîðèàëüíûé îòäåë ÇÀÃÑ, ãäå áûë âûäàí îðèãèíàë äîêóìåíòà. Äà, (ïðèìåð) Âû - óðîæåíêà Ìîñêâû, íî äîêóìåíò ãðàæäàíñêîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ (î ðîæäåíèè, áðàêå, ñìåðòè) Âû áóäåòå èñêàòü íå â Óïðàâëåíèè ÇÀÃÑ Ìîñêâû, à â àðõèâå îïðåäåëåííîãî ðàéîííîãî îòäåëåíèÿ ÇÀÃÑ [/q]
Íå ìîãó ñîãëàñèòüñÿ. Äà, òàê â Ìîñêâå. Íî, íàïðèìåð, â Åêàòåðèíáóðãå ìíå âûäàëè áóìàãè î ñìåðòè ìîèõ áàáóøêè è ïðàáàáóøêè â ãîðîäñêîì îòäåëå ÇÀÃÑà, ÿ è íå çíàëà,â êàêîì ðàéîíå ãîðîäà îíè æèëè, òàê êàê îíè óìåðëè çàäîëãî äî ìîåãî ðîæäåíèÿ. À à ìàëåíüêîì Áðÿíñêå, äóìàþ, âñå åùå ïðîùå. ×òî êàñàåòñÿ âåðîèñïîâåäàíèÿ - evangelist ìîæíî ïåðåâåñòè è êàê ïðîòåñòàíò. Íî áûëî áû ñòðàííî, åñëè áû Ìîë÷àíîâû îêàçàëèñü ïðîòåñòàíòàìè. Âîçìîæíî, Òàìàðà ïîìåíÿëà êîíôåññèþ óæå â Ãåðìàíèè. orionbuffeHaven't you look for Valentina's descendants in Canada? I believe it's quite possible to find them. Perhars, they know something important about your common ancestors. As to confession I doubt Tamara was baptized as evangelist, most likely she was orthodox. She could changed a confession in Germany. I think also that you should adress to Consulate once more and insist that they help you. Show them the letter you' ve got from Kursk ZAGS. We have to be persistent with officials.  ---
Âñå ëè÷íûå äàííûå, ìîè è ìîåé ñåìüè, ðàçìåùåíû ìíîþ íà ñàéòå ñ ñîãëàñèÿ ðîäñòâåííèêîâ
×åðìåíñêèå (Êåðåíñê, Ñàðàòîâ), Ëóïåéêî/Ëóïåéêà (Ëèòâà, ÑØÀ), Ðåíêå è Âåíãëèíñêèå (Êèåâ, Ðàäîìûøëü), Êâÿòêîâñêèå (Ìèíñêàÿ ãóá), Åëîçèíû (Àðêàäàê) | | |
| orionbuffe Íîâè÷îê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2015 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 4 | Íàâåðõ ##
10 íîÿáðÿ 2015 0:03 I did it, Valentina had only one son, he gave me some little informations, but it was one year ago. My grandfather has contact with him, sometimes. Me too, I was astonished. But, as you can see, there's a mistake in her name (Jamara instead Tamara), I think that the German officer wasn't very very serious when he restored this act ! Or maybe she just wanted to hide that she was orthodox. Anyway, I'm totally sure she was orthodox, so it doesn't matter. I'll follow your advice, I'm gonna annoy them a bit ! Thank you ! ---
Sorry for my Russian. | | |
| kbg_dnepr
Äíèïðî (áûâø. Äíåïðîïåòðîâñê)
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7047
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 4363
| Íàâåðõ ##
10 íîÿáðÿ 2015 11:37 orionbuffeorionbuffe íàïèñàë: [q] I'm gonna annoy them a bit ![/q]
That's the right way with our officials  ---
Êàòåðèíà
Ãëóøàê (Áðÿíñê.) Êîâàëåâ, Ôåäîñåíêî (Ìîãèëåâñê.)
Îãëîòêîâ (Ãîðáàò. ó. ÍÃÃ) Àëüêèí Æàðêîâ Êóëüäèøîâ Áàëàíäèí (Ñèìá. ãóá.)
Êëûøêèí Âëàñåíêî Ñàêóíîâ Êó÷åðÿâåíêî (Ãëóõîâ)
Êèðè÷åíêî Áîíäàðåíêî Áåëîóñ Ñòðàøíûé (Íîâîìîñê. Äíåïðîï.) | | |
Tasha56Ïî÷åòíûé ó÷àcòíèê Ðîññèÿ Ñîîáùåíèé: 12643 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 41412 | Íàâåðõ ##
10 íîÿáðÿ 2015 15:02 gachÂèäèìî, ïî ñâîèì èññëåäîâàíèÿì ìû ñòîëêíóëèñü ñ ðàçíûìè ñèòóàöèÿìè. Ïî Êîñòðîìå íàì òîæå ïðèøëîñü óçíàâàòü ðàéîííûé ÇÀÃÑ, ãäå âûäàâàëñÿ îðèãèíàë.... [q] Âîçìîæíî, Òàìàðà ïîìåíÿëà êîíôåññèþ óæå â Ãåðìàíèè. [/q]
Î òîì è ðàçãîâîð. Íå âñå äîêóìåíòû îòðàáîòàíû åùå ïî ìåñòàì æèòåëüñòâà Òàìàðû çà ïîñëåäíèå ãîäû... Ýìèãðàöèÿ (äîêóìåíòû ñ ïåðñîíàëüíûìè äàííûìè), ïîëó÷åíèå ãðàæäàíñòâà (äîêóìåíòû ñ ïåðñîíàëüíûìè äàííûìè), ñìåíà âåðû (äîêóìåíòû ñ ïåðñîíàëüíûìè äàííûìè)......äîìîâûå êíèãè ïî ìåñòó æèòåëüñòâà (äîêóìåíòû ñ ïåðñîíàëüíûìè äàííûìè)..... Ãäå ïîñëåäíèå ãîäû ïðîæèâàëà ðîäñòâåííèöà? ....Ïóòü ìèãðàöèè (äâèæåíèÿ) âîîáùå íå ïðîñëåæèâàåòñÿ (âûïèñàëàñü ñ àäðåñà.../ïðîïèñàëàñü â àäðåñ...). Åñòü ýïèçîäè÷åñêàÿ ìèãðàöèÿ (äåëîâûå, òóðèñòè÷ñêèå ïîåçäêè è ò.ä.), ãäå ÏÄ âïèñûâàþòñÿ ÷àñòè÷íî, íî (â äàííîì ñëó÷àå) ðå÷ü î ñìåíå ìåñòà æèòåëüñòâà....ïàêåò äîêóìåíòîâ íå óñòóïàåò ïàêåòó ïåðåñåëåíöåâ. --- ✅ Âîïðîñû ïî ïîèñêó, àäðåñîâàííûå ìíå, ïîæàëóéñòà, êðåïèòå â òåìó äíåâíèêà >>>
ÄÍÅÂÍÈÊ >> (×åðíèãîâñêàÿ, Êîñòðîìñêàÿ ãóá., Àëòàéñêèé êðàé, Ìîñêâà..) | | |
| orionbuffe Íîâè÷îê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2015 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 4 | Íàâåðõ ##
10 íîÿáðÿ 2015 15:32 Hello ! Russian Consulate just answered : Translation "Sir, Unfortunately, the consular section of the Embassy can not get the birth act of a dead person. Respectfully, Consular Section, Russian Embassy in Belgium" ---- So, I think I will have to forget the Embassy. About Tamara's name, I think it can't have been changed : I have a letter that she wrote to USSR Embassy (in 1958), to renew her passport (to go in Russia). She had to give her real identity I suppose, right ? (I tried to find this passport, but it seems it has been lost after her death) I'm gonna receive her decease act soon, maybe there will be a surprise, maybe. ---
Sorry for my Russian. | | |
Tasha56Ïî÷åòíûé ó÷àcòíèê Ðîññèÿ Ñîîáùåíèé: 12643 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 41412 | Íàâåðõ ##
10 íîÿáðÿ 2015 15:43 orionbuffe
You fill brownies books? Where Tamara lived recently? --- ✅ Âîïðîñû ïî ïîèñêó, àäðåñîâàííûå ìíå, ïîæàëóéñòà, êðåïèòå â òåìó äíåâíèêà >>>
ÄÍÅÂÍÈÊ >> (×åðíèãîâñêàÿ, Êîñòðîìñêàÿ ãóá., Àëòàéñêèé êðàé, Ìîñêâà..) | | |
Geo Z LT Ñîîáùåíèé: 19768 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 13338 | Íàâåðõ ##
10 íîÿáðÿ 2015 15:44 Tasha56 íàïèñàë: [q] ñìåíà âåðû (äîêóìåíòû ñ ïåðñîíàëüíûìè äàííûìè)[/q]
Ïî÷åìó ïèøèòå î êàêî-òî ñìåíå âåðû.  ÑÑÑÐ âåðîèñïîâåäàíèå îôèöèàëüíî íå îôîðìëÿëîñü, à ÷àñòî è ïðèõîäèëîñü ñêðûâàòü ýòî. Âî-âòîðûõ , áûëè íå òîëüêî ïðàâîñëàâíûå, íî ìíîæåñòâî ðàçíûõ äðóãèõ òå÷åíèé. Íàïðèìåð: Åâà́íãåëüñêèå õðèñòèà́íå (òàêæå èçâåñòíû, êàê «ïðîõàíîâöû», «ïàøêîâöû», «ðåäñòîêèñòû») — äâèæåíèå ïðîòåñòàíòñêîãî õðèñòèàíñòâà, ïîëó÷èâøåå ðàñïðîñòðàíåíèå â Ðîññèè â êîíöå XIX — ïåðâîé ïîëîâèíå XX âåêà.  1944 ãîäó öåðêâè åâàíãåëüñêèõ õðèñòèàí è áàïòèñòîâ âîøëè â îäèí ñîþç (ÂÑÅÕÁ), îáðàçîâàâ åäèíóþ êîíôåññèþ åâàíãåëüñêèõ õðèñòèàí-áàïòèñòîâ. | | |
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