"Ïîëòàâùèíà" è åå çàñåëåíèå, ãåíîãåîãðàôè÷åñêèé ïðîåêò
"Ïîëòàâùèíà" êàê ìåñòî ïåðåñåëåíèÿ êîçàêîâ è ïîñïîëèòûõ ñ Ïðàâîáåðåæíîé Óêðàèíû â XVII âåêå
borisovichi Ñîîáùåíèé: 453
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2011 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 1173
Íàâåðõ ## 1 íîÿáðÿ 2013 21:03 13 ÿíâàðÿ 2014 18:09 Îáúÿâëåíèå Îáúÿâëåíèå Äëÿ ó÷àñòèÿ â ãåíîãåîãðàôè÷åñêîì ïðîåêòå
"Ïîëòàâùèíà è åå çàñåëåíèå" ïðèãëàøàþòñÿ âñå æåëàþùèå, ÷üè ïðåäêè ïðîèñõîäÿò ñ Ïîëòàâñêîé çåìëè. Ïîä "Ïîëòàâùèíîé" â äàííîì ñëó÷àå ñëåäóåò ïîíèìàòü òåððèòîðèþ Ïîëòàâñêîãî ïîëêà / Ïîëòàâñêîãî óåçäà, êóäà â XVII âåêå, ïî íåêîòîðûì ñâåäåíèÿì, ïåðåñåëÿëèñü êîçàêè è ïîñïîëèòûå Ïðàâîáåðåæíîé Óêðàèíû. Òàêæå îáðàùàþ âíèìàíèå ê ýòîé òåìå òåõ, ÷üè ïðåäêè ìîãóò ïðîèñõîäèòü ñ Áðàöëàâùèíû èëè Ïîäîëüÿ XVII âåêà, à òàêæå òåõ, êòî ñìîã âåðíóòüñÿ íàçàä äîìîé ñ Ïîëòàâùèíû â íà÷àëå XVIII âåêà.
Ñàìî îïðåäåëåíèå
"Ïîëòàâùèíà" óæå óïîòðåáëÿëîñü â XVII âåêå, è íàäî ïîëàãàòü, îáîçíà÷àëî òåððèòîðèè âõîäèâøèå â Ïîëòàâñêèé ïîëê (óêð.) èëè óåçä (ðóññê.), êóäà âõîäèëè ñåëåíèÿ âäîëü ñðåäíåãî è íèæíåãî òå÷åíèÿ Âîðñêëû è åå ïðèòîêîâ.
[q]
1688ã. 1Ñåíòÿáðÿ. [/q]
[q]
1706 ã. 20 Íîÿáðÿ. .[/q]
"Êàçêà ïðî ñîëîì'ÿíîãî áè÷êà" Ñóùåñòâóåò ìíåíèå, ÷òî áîëüøèíñòâî ðàññêàçîâ î ïåðåñåëåíèè æèòåëåé Ïðàâîáåðåæüÿ è çàñåëåíèè èìè òåððèòîðèè Ïîëòàâùèíû - íå áîëåå ÷åì êðàñèâàÿ ñêàçêà êðàåâåäîâ. Èñòîðèêîâ è èñòî÷íèêîâåäîâ ìîæíî ïîíÿòü, âåäü èñòîðè÷åñêèõ èñòî÷íèêîâ ïîäòâåðæäàþùèõ äàííûå ôàêòû ïåðåñåëåíèÿ ïðàêòè÷åñêè íåò. Íî…
Ãîâîðÿ ñëîâàìè èçâåñòíîé ñîâåòñêîé ïåñíè "Ìû ðîæäåíû, ÷òîá ñêàçêó ñäåëàòü áûëüþ"
Öåëü è ðåçóëüòàòû ïðîåêòà Íåîáõîäèìî ïîëó÷èòü äîñòàòî÷íóþ ñðàâíèòåëüíóþ áàçó ãàïëîòèïîâ, à òàêæå õàðàêòåðíûõ ãàïëîãðóïï ÄÍÊ è äðóãèõ õàðàêòåðíûõ ãåíåòè÷åñêèõ ïðèçíàêîâ äëÿ ïîäòâåðæäåíèÿ ìèãðàöèè æèòåëåé Ïðàâîáåðåæíîé Óêðàèíû íà òåððèòîðèþ Ïîëòàâùèíû.
Óæå ñóùåñòâóåò áîëåå ãëîáàëüíûé ïðîåêò "Ukraine DNA Project"
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ukraine/ Îáñóæäåíèå çäåñü
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,4226.0.html Äëÿ óäîáñòâà àíàëèçà è îáñóæäåíèÿ, ñîçäàí ýòîò ëîêàëüíûé ðåãèîíàëüíûé "Ïîëòàâùèíà è åå çàñåëåíèå"
Family Tree DNA "îäîáðèëî" ïðîåêò
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/poltavaregion/
Íàñåëåííûå ìåñòà Î ñòåïåíè çàñåëåíèÿ è ñóùåñòâóþùèõ ïîñåëåíèÿõ Ïîëòàâùèíû ê ñåðåäèíå XVII âåêà äàåò ïðåäñòàâëåíèå êàðòà Áîïëàíà, ôðàíöóçñêîãî èíæåíåðà áûâøåãî íà ïîëüñêîé ñëóæáå.
Ñîãëàñíî "Ðîñïèñè
ãîðîäàì è ìåñòå÷êàì , êîòîðûìè âîéñêî çàïîðîæñêîå âëàäååò" (1653 ã.), à òàêæå â ðîñïèñè "Êòî èç äâîðÿí ïîñëàí â ýòè ãîðîäà ïðèâîäèòü æèòåëåé ïðèñÿãå" (1654 ã.), â ïîëêó Ïîëòàâñêîì çíà÷àòñÿ:
Ïîëòàâà , Ãàäÿ÷, Âåïðèê, Çåíüêîâ, Ðàøåâêà, Ëþòåíüêà, Áîðêè, Áàëàêëèÿ, Îïîøíÿ, Êóçåìèí,
Ñòàðûé-Ñàíæàðîâ, Êîáåëÿêè , Ëóêîìüå, à òàêæå ñëîáîäêè: Áåëîöåðêîâöû, Áîðêè,
Ðåøåòèëîâêà , Êîòåëüâà,
Áåëèêè è Íîâûé-Ñàíæàðîâ [Ìåñòå÷êî Ðåøåòèëîâêà, Ïîëòàâñêîãî óåçäà. — Â. Å. Áó÷íåâè÷à] Ñîãëàñíî Àë. Ëàçàðåâñêîìó (Ïîëòàâùèíà â XVII âåêå) â ïåðâîé ïîëîâèíå XVII âåêà ïîñåëèëèñü
ñåëà ïî ð. Âîðñêëå: Ïàòëàåâêà, Ñåìåíîâêà,
Ïåòðîâêà, Ãàâðîíöû, Ñòàñîâöû ; âïðàâî îò Âîðñêëû –
Äèêàíüêà, Æóêè, Òàõòàóëîâî , Îñìà÷êè,
Èâîí÷èíöû , Ðûáöû, Ãóäæóëû, Ìàðòûíîâêà, Øîñòàêè, Ñóïðóíîâêà,
Ãîðáàíåâêà, Ìèëüöû, Êóêëèíöû, Ìà÷îõè, Ðîñîøèíöû …
Âñå ýòè ñåëà íàõîäèëèñü âáëèçè
Ïîëòàâû , â êîòîðîé òîëüêî è ìîæíî áûëî óêðûòüñÿ â ñëó÷àå òàòàðñêîãî íàáåãà.
Âîçîáíîâëåíèå êîëîíèçàöèè Ïàäàëêà.
[q]
Øèðîêîå ðàçâèòèå âîçîáíîâëåííîé êîëîíèçàöèè êðàÿ, ïðåîáðàçèâøåé âòîðîé ÷åòâåðòè XVII âåêà . Îíî âûðàçèëîñü ìàññîâûì ñåëüñêàãî íàñåëåíèÿ , óãíåòåííàãî ïðàâÿùèì ïîìåñòíûì Áðàöëàâùèíû [/q]
Àë. Ëàçàðåâñêèé
[q]
 èñòîðèè çàñåëåíèÿ Ïîëòàâùèíû âèäíû òðè ïåðèîäà: 1, ïåðâàÿ ïîëîâèíà XVII â ., êîãäà çàñåëèëèñü áåðåãà Âîðñêëû; 2, âòîðàÿ ïîëîâèíà XVII â ., – âðåìÿ çàñåëåíèÿ áåðåãîâ Îðåëè è 3, ïåðâàÿ ïîëîâèíà XVIII â ., êîãäà ñêó÷åííîå íàñåëåíèå ãîðîäêîâ è ñåë XVII-ãî â. ñòàëî [/q]
Ìàññîâûå ïåðåñåëåíèÿ Áàãàëåé
[q]
…äî [öàðÿ] Àëåêñåÿ Ìèõàéëîâè÷à [1645] áûëî òîëüêî îäíî áîëüøîå ìàññîâîå äâèæåíèå ìàëîðîññèÿí â ñòåïíóþ îêðàèíó—ýòî ïåðåñåëåíèå ãåòìàíà ßêîâà Îñòðåíèíà. Ïîëòàâû è â äðóãèõ ãîðîäàõ è ñëîáîäàõ, ïðè÷åì ïîëó÷èëè øåñòèëåòíþþ ëüãîòó îò ïîâèííîñòåé; âñå ýòî áûëî ïðåäîñòàâëåíî èì ãåòìàíîì Êîíåöïîëüñêèì 1). Ê 1651 ã. îòíîñèòñÿ ðàçñêàç âñåõ ìàëîðîññèéñêèõ ëåòîïèñåé î âûõîäå çíà÷èòåëüíàãî êîëè÷åñòâà ìàëîðîññèÿí èç Ïîëüøè â ñòåïíóþ îêðàèíó… [/q]
Ïóáëèêàöèè ²ñòîð³ÿ ì³ñò ³ ñ³ë Óêðà¿íñüêî¿ ÐÑÐ, Ïîëòàâñüêà îáëàñòü
[q]
ÌÀ×ÓÕÈ Ïðàâî- [3]…IX , ñòð. 259 . [/q]
Ñåëî Æóêè , Ïîëòàâñêîãî óåçäà. — Â. Å. Áó÷íåâè÷à
[q]
Âðåìÿ îñíîâàíèÿ ýòîãî ñåëà â òî÷íîñòè íåèçâåñòíî. Èçâåñòíî òîëüêî, ÷òî â 1641 ãîäó, 26 àïðåëÿ, êîãäà áûë óáèò â ×óãóåâå ãåòìàí ßêîâ Îñòðÿíèöà 1) , òî Òèìîôåé, Ôåäîð è Àëåêñàíäðà Æó÷åíêè, äåòè Èâàíà Æóêà, æèâøåãî â íà÷àëå XVII ñòîëåòèÿ, ïåðåñåëèëèñü îòòóäà âìåñòå ñ Èñêðàìè â Ïîëòàâùèíó, áóäó÷è ñàìè âûõîäöàìè èç-çà Äíåïðà , ãäå, ñ ïîçâîëåíèÿ êîðîííîãî ïîëüñêîãî ãåòìàíà Ñòàíèñëàâà Êîíåöïîëüñêîãî, çàíÿëè ðàçíûå "âîëüíûå ãðóíòà"; ìåæäó ïðî÷èì, Êîíåöïîëüñêèé ïîçâîëèë èì ñåëèòüñÿ ñëîáîäîþ ïîä Ïîëòàâîþ . Î÷åíü ìîæåò áûòü, ÷òî òàêîþ "ñëîáîäîþ" ïîñåëåíî áûëî òåïåðåøíåå ñåëî Æóêè, ñîõðàíèâøåå â ñâîåì íàçâàíèè ôàìèëèþ åãî îñíîâàòåëåé 2). [/q]
ÏÎËÒÀÂÙÈÍÀ Â XVII ÂÅÊÅ. Àë. Ëàçàðåâñêèé.
[q]
Ãîðîäêè è ñåëà ïî Âîðñêëå ñåëèëèñü â ïåðâîé ïîëîâèíå Ïîëòàâà çàñåäàëà ñëîáîäîþ1650 ã. ) â ïåðâûé ðàç íà ðåöå Âîðñêëå ìîñò [/q]
Ïðîøëîå Ïîëòàâñêîé òåððèòîðèè è åå çàñåëåíèå. Ë.Â. Ïàäàëêà
[q]
Õàðàêòåð øëÿõåòñêîé ðóññêî-ïîëüñêîé êîëîíèçàöèè íî- 1631 ã. îòìå÷àåò çäåñü íåñêîëüêî ïîñåëåíèé ñ Ïîëòàâà , â êîðîëåâñêîé ãðàìîòå 1630 ã. [/q]
Ïîðóáåæüå Ðîññèéñêîãî Öàðñòâà è Óêðàèíñêèõ çåìåëü Ðå÷è Ïîñïîëèòîé. À.È. Ïàïêîâ
[q]
Ïîñëàíèå ñ … ïðåòåíçèÿìè íà èìÿ ïîëüñêîãî êîðîëÿ 10 ìàÿ 1585 ã. (ïî ãðèãîðèàíñêîìó êàëåíäàðþ) âðó÷èë ìîñêîâñêèé ãîíåö Ïîëòàâû .  ïîñëàíèè [/q]
Èñòî÷íèêè Î Ïîëòàâå 1770 ãîäà. Îòâåòû Ïîëòàâñêîãî ãîðîäñêîãî ãîëîâû íà âîïðîñû
ïðàâèòåëüñòâåííîé êîìèññèè î ãåîãðàôè÷åñêîì, ýêîíîìè÷åñêîì, ïîëèòè÷åñêîì
è êóëüòóðíîì ïîëîæåíèè ã. Ïîëòàâû,
Àâãóñò 1770 ã. [q]
Íà ïðèñëàííûå ïîëêó Ïîëòàâñêîãî â ã. Ïîëòàâó ã. Ïîëòàâà îñàæåí 1608 ã. êîçàêîì ïîëêó Ìèðãîðîäñêîãî, ïðîçûâàåìîì Ìàñëîì, [/q]
1641, â íà÷àëå èþëÿ . Îòïèñêà Ïóòèâëüñêàãî âîåâîäû Ïåòðà Âîëêîíñêàãî
î ïðèåçäå â Ïóòèâëü ñòðîèòåëÿ Ãóñòûíñêàãî ìîíàñòûðÿ Ñèëüâåñòðà ñ òîâàðèùàìè
äëÿ èñïðîøåíèÿ ìèëîñòûíè íà öåðêîâíîå ñòðîåíüå;
âåñòè î ïîñåëåíèè êîçàêîâ Îñòðÿíèöû ïîä Ïîëòàâîþ. [q]
À âåñòåé, ãîñóäàðü, â ðàñïðîñå òå Ãóñòûíñêèå ñòàðöû ñêàçàëè: Ïîëòàâîþ [/q]
Ëåòîïèñü Ñàìîâèäöà
î âîéíàõ Õìåëüíèöêàãî ðîêó 1651. [q]
È òàê íà òîé çãîä³ ãåòìàíîâå êîðîíí³å âûìîãëè òîå íà Õìåëíèöêîì, æå ïîçâîëèâ âîéñêó êîðîííîìó â Áðàñëàâþ , íà Çàáîæþ, à ÷àñòè äðóãîé âîéñêà ñòàòè íà Çàäí³ïðó â ïîëêó ͳæèíñêîì è ×åðí³ãîâñêîì è â Âèøíåâè÷èí³, à âîéñêó ëèòîâñêîìó ó Ñòàðîäóáîâùèí³. È òàê òóþ çãîäó ïðèíÿâøè, âîéñêà ðîçèøëèñÿ, à ùî èíøèõ ïàêòîâ íà Çáàðàæñêèõ ïóíêòàõ ñòàëî, òèëêî òî íîâàÿ, ùî âîéñêî ñòàëî â òèõ ãîðîäàõ, ãäå êîçàöòâî. Ïîëòàâ³ è òàì ñëîáîäè ïîîñàæîâàëè, à èíí³å íà êãðóíòàõ ìîñêîâñêèõ ñëîáîäè ïîîñàæîâàëè, íå õîòÿ÷è ç æîëí³ðàìè çîñòàâàòè è ñòàöå¿ îíèì äàâàòè, áî íåçíîñíóþ ñòàö³þ áðàëè. À íà òîå ì³ëè êîçàêè ïîçâîëåííÿ, æåáû ñõîäèòè ç äîìîâ îò ãåòìàíà Õìåëíèöêîãî, êîòîðèì íå ìîãëè æîëí³ðîâå çàáîðîíèòè, áî èç ãàðìàòàìè âûõîäèëè ç ãîðîäîâ. [/q]
1654 ã. ÿíâàðÿ — ôåâðàëÿ .—
Ïåðåïèñíûÿ êíèãè î ïðèâåäåííûõ ê ïðèñÿãå íà ïîääàíñòâî [q]
Ðîñïèñü Ïîëòàâñêîãî ïîëêó, ÷òî â êîòîðîì ãîðîäå è ìåñòå÷êå Ãîðîäà Ïîëòàâû : ñîòíèê… âîéòà… 1335 ÷. ó ðîê: àòàìàí… âîéòà… 148 ÷. Ñëîáîòêè Ðåøåòèëîâêè : àòàìàí… âîéòà… 139 ÷. 154 í èíñêîãî: ñîòíèê , àòàìàí… âîéòà… 653 ÷. ó íè: ñîòíèê , àòàìàí… âîéòà, áóðìèñòð… 95 ÷. ó ðêè: àòàìàí… âîéòà, áóðìèñòð … 355 ÷. [/q]
Ôàìèëèè Ïîëê Áðàöëàâñêèé,
Ïîëê Ïîëòàâñêèé,
Ïîëòàâñêàÿ îáëàñòü, 2000
Âèííèöêàÿ îáëàñòü, 2000
ìåñòå÷êî Êðàñíîå ñåëî Èâàíîâöû ñåëî ×åðåìîøíîå ñåëî Ðîãîçíà ñåëî Ñîêîëîâêà ñåëî Òèâðîâ ñåëî Êëåùîâ ñåëî Ñîêîëèíöû ñåëî Þðêîâöè ñåëî Ñèëüíèöà ñåëî Äèêàíüêà Ñîõàíü ñåëî Ãàâðîíöû ñåëî Ïåòðîâêà ñåëî Ñòàñîâöû ñåëî Áðóñèÿ ñåëî Êàìåíêà ñåëî Òàõòàóëîâî
À. Ì. Ëàçàðåâñêèé. Î÷åðêè ìàëîðîññèéñêèõ ôàìèëèé.
Ìàòåðèàëû äëÿ èñòîðèè îáùåñòâà â XVII è XVIII â.
14. Èñêðû.
[q]
ßêîâ Îñòðÿíèöà … Èñêðà âûäåðæàë 6) . Èìåíèÿ ïîñëåäíÿãî áûëè êîíôèñêîâàíû; â êîðîëåâñêîé 7) . Áåæàë Èñêðà ñî âñåþ ñâîåþ ñåìüåþ ê ãðàíèöå Âîðñêëîþ è Êîëîìàêîì , Êîâæèæó è Ñîêîëèé 8); íî íàäâèíóâøèåñÿ ê Ïîëòàâùèíå Ïîëÿêè, êàê êàæåòñÿ, çàñòàâèëè ñ òîâàðèùàìè , óñòðîåí 9) .  ×óãóåâå Èñêðà ïðîæèë äî âåñíû 1641 ã., êîãäà áûë óáèò 10) . Ìîæíî äóìàòü, ÷òî òîâàðèùè Èñêðû áûëè âåðíóòüñÿ .  ÷èñëå êîçàêîâ , áåæàâøèõ ïîä Ïîëòàâîþ 12) . Çäåñü Èâàí Èñêðà ïîñåëèëñÿ ñëîáîäîþÈñêðîâêîþ . [/q]
Òîïîíèìû Âèííèöêàÿ îáëàñòü
Ïîëòàâñêàÿ îáëàñòü
Ôîðìîîáðàçîâàíèå (ëèíãâèñòèêà) Âèííèöêàÿ îáëàñòü
Ïîëòàâñêàÿ îáëàñòü
Íàóêà Îêñàíà Êîâàëåíêî. Ïðîñòðàíñòâåííîå è äåìîãðàôè÷åñêîå ðàçâèòèå ãîðîäà Ïîëòàâû XVII — íà÷àëà Õ²Õ ââ. î. Þðèé Ìûöèê. Êàíåâñêîå è ×åðêàññêîå ñòàðîñòâà â îïèñè ìàëîèçâåñòíîé ëþñòðàöèè 1631–1633 ãîäîâ Î. Ì. Ìàøòàáåé. „Àêòîâ³ êíèãè ïîëòàâñüêîãî ãîðîäîâîãî óðÿäó” ÿê äæåðåëî äëÿ ³ñòîðè÷íîãî âèâ÷åííÿ ïîëòàâñüêî-êè¿âñüêîãî ä³àëåêòó (䳺ñë³âí³ ôîðìè) Êëþ÷åâûå ñëîâà Ïîëòàâñêàÿ çåìëÿ, Ïîëòàâùèíà, Ïîëòàâñêèå ÷åðêàñû, Ëèòîâñêèå ÷åðêàñû, ëèòîâñêèå ëþäè, ñðåäíåå Ïîâîðñêëüå, Pultawa
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Ëàéê (4)
otetz007 Ñ-Ïá
Ñîîáùåíèé: 188
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2007 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 63
Íàâåðõ ## 26 íîÿáðÿ 2013 17:10 À ÿ ïðàâèëüíî ïîíÿë èç ïåðâîãî ñîîáùåíèÿ òåìû, ÷òî âîçìîæíî áóäåò óçíàòü îòêóäà ëþäè ïîÿâèëèñü íà Ïîëòàâùèíå?
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borisovichi Ñîîáùåíèé: 453
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2011 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 1173
Íàâåðõ ## 26 íîÿáðÿ 2013 17:49 otetz007 íàïèñàë:
[q]
À ÿ ïðàâèëüíî ïîíÿë èç ïåðâîãî ñîîáùåíèÿ òåìû, ÷òî âîçìîæíî áóäåò óçíàòü îòêóäà ëþäè ïîÿâèëèñü íà Ïîëòàâùèíå?Ìíîãî ëè ó÷àñòíèêîâ óæå â ïðîåêòå? [/q]
Ïðîåêò òîëüêî ñîçäàåòñÿ. Ðåçóëüòàòîâ òåñòîâ åùå íåò (èäåò àíàëèç â ëàáîðàòîðèè). Â ïåðâîì ñîîáùåíèè äîáàâëåí àäðåñ ïðîåêòà íà ñàéòå ÔÒÄÍÀ
Âû áóäåòå òðåòüèì, íå ëèøíèì
Ïðåäñòàâüòå ñèòóàöèþ ÷åðåç íåêîòîðîå âðåìÿ. Âû íàõîäèòå ñâîåãî "ñîâïàäåíöà", äàëüíåãî "ðîäñòâåííèêà" èç äðóãîãî ðåãèîíà. ×åì íå äîêàçàòåëüñòâî "îòêóäà ïðèøëè/óøëè", êîãäà íåò äîêóìåíòàëüíûõ ñâèäåòåëüñòâ
Çà Õîðîëüñêèé ðåãèîí ñåé÷àñ íå ãîòîâ ñêàçàòü ïî åãî çàñåëåíèþ, íàäî çàíèìàòüñÿ ýòèì âîïðîñîì.
Ïîä Ïîëòàâùèíîé çäåñü â óçêîì ñìûñëå ÿ ïîíèìàþ òåððèòîðèþ Ïîëòàâñêîãî ïîëêà/óåçäà 17 âåêà
Èñòîðèêè ãîâîðÿò î ìàññîâîì ïåðåñåëåíèè íà òåððèòîðèþ Ïîëòàâñêîãî ïîëêà â ñåð 17 âåêà ñ Ïðàâîáåðåæüÿ (1651 ïîñëå ïîäïèñàíèÿ äîãîâîðà ñ Ïîëüøåé è ââîäà ïîëüñêèõ âîéñê â ãîðîäà). Íî íè÷åãî êîíêðåòíîãî î êàêèõ èìåííî ìåñòàõ è ñåëàõ
Äóìàþ ÷òî ïî "Õîðîëó" (Ìèðãîðîäñêèé ïîëê 17 â) òàêîé àëãîðèòì ïîèñêà òîæå ïðèìåíèì è ñîâìåñòíûìè óñèëèÿìè ìîæíî áóäåò ðåøèòü è ýòó çàäà÷ó
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borisovichi Ñîîáùåíèé: 453
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2011 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 1173
Íàâåðõ ## 5 äåêàáðÿ 2013 1:31 Population Finder
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Ñåðîóõîâ Âàëåðèé Àëåêñååâè÷ Ñêîí÷àëñÿ â äåêàáðå 2017 ãîäà. Ñâåòëàÿ ïàìÿòü!
Ìîñêîâñêàÿ îáëàñòü, ã. Êðàñíîãîðñê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1047
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2010 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 2009
Íàâåðõ ## 5 äåêàáðÿ 2013 18:58 Êàê ïðàêòè÷åñêè ïîó÷àñòâîâàòü â ïðîãðàììå? Ìîè Ñåðîóõè óïîìèíàþòñÿ â Êîìïóòå Ïîëòàâñêîãî ïîëêà 1718 ãîäà â Íîâîñàíæàðñêîé ñîòíå.
borisovichi Ñîîáùåíèé: 453
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2011 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 1173
Íàâåðõ ## 5 äåêàáðÿ 2013 23:05
ÐîìàíÑ Ñòàíè÷íûé ãîëîâà
Áåëãîðîäñêàÿ îáëàñòü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 4165
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 30958
Íàâåðõ ## 5 äåêàáðÿ 2013 23:44 Ñåðîóõîâ Âàëåðèé Àëåêñååâè÷ íàïèñàë:
[q]
Êàê ïðàêòè÷åñêè ïîó÷àñòâîâàòü â ïðîãðàììå? Ìîè Ñåðîóõè óïîìèíàþòñÿ â Êîìïóòå Ïîëòàâñêîãî ïîëêà 1718 ãîäà â Íîâîñàíæàðñêîé ñîòíå.[/q]
Âàëåðèé Àëåêñååâè÷!
 ïðîäîëæåíèå îòâåòà ìîåãî êîëëåãè äîáàâëþ, ÷òî åñëè Âàì ïîçâîëÿþò ôèíàíñû, òî ëó÷øå ñðàçó ñäåëàòü Y 67 è Ôýìýëè Ôàéíäåð.
Ïåðâûé òåñò, îí êàê ëó÷ ëàçåðà, ïîêàæåò Âàøó ïðÿìóþ ìóæñêóþ ëèíèþ âãëóáü âåêîâ, à òàêæå Âàøèõ ãåíåòè÷åñêèõ ïðèáëèæåíöåâ(ðîäñòâåííèêîâ) ïî ïðÿìîé ìóæñêîé ëèíèè èç èìåþùåéñÿ áàçû ñ áîëåå ÷åì 600 000 ÷åëîâåê, â îñíîâíîì ïîòîìêîâ åâðîïåéöåâ.
Âòîðîé - îí êàê ïëàìÿ ñâå÷è, îñâåòèò âñåõ ðîäñòâåííèêîâ ïî âñåì ëèíèÿì íî íà äèñòàíöèþ 150-250 ëåò. È íå áóäåò ñðàçó ïîíÿòíî ïî êàêîé èç ëèíèé ðîäñòâåííèêè, òàê ÷òî, ïðèä¸òñÿ ðàçáèðàòüñÿ. Òàêèì îáðàçîì, îïòèìàëåí äëÿ Âàñ âîò ýòîò êîìáèíèðîâàííûé òåñò:
Family Finder + Y-DNA67
https://www.familytreedna.com/...ctAProduct Îí ñòîèò 295 äîëëàðîâ ÑØÀ ñ äîñòàâêîé â Ìîñêâó. Ýòî ñî ñêèäêîé. Áåç ñêèäêè îí ñòîèò 354 äîëëàðà.
Ñ óâàæåíèåì,
ÐîìàíÑ
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valcha https://forum.vgd.ru/349/
Ñîîáùåíèé: 25444
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 21650
Íàâåðõ ## 6 äåêàáðÿ 2013 12:50 ---Ïëàòíûì ïîèñêîì íå çàíèìàþñü.  ëè÷êå ÍÅ êîíñóëüòèðóþ. Çàäàâàéòå, ïîæ-ñòà, âîïðîñû â ñîîòâåòñòâóþùèõ òåìàõ, âàì òàì îòâåòßÒ.
Ëàéê (1)
borisovichi Ñîîáùåíèé: 453
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2011 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 1173
Íàâåðõ ## 7 äåêàáðÿ 2013 2:20 Ïîæàëóé ìîæíî ïðîêîììåíòèðîâàòü ïåðâûå ðåçóëüòàòû ó÷àñòíèêîâ ïðîåêòà
Ñðåäè ñîâïàäåíöåâ ìîåé áàáóøêè åñòü äâà ÷åëîâåêà, îïðåäåëÿåìûå ÔÒÄÍÀ êàê ðîäñòâåííèêè â 3 - 6 ïîêîëåíèÿõ.
Óòî÷íþ, ÷òî áàáóøêèíû ïðåäêè, Ñîõàíè è Êàëüíèêè, ïðîèñõîäÿò, ñ áîëüøîé âåðîÿòíîñòüþ (âåðîÿòíî, òê íåò äîêóìåíòàëüíîãî ïîäòâåðæäåíèÿ) èç Äèêàíüêè, âëàäåíèÿ Êî÷óáååâ.
Ñîõàíè ïåðåñåëèëèñü íàêàíóíå Ðóìÿíöåâñêîé ïåðåïèñè (1765) â Ïåñ÷àíîå/Íàäåæäó Ðåøåòèëîâñêîé ñîòíè. Êàëüíèêè æå ïåðåñåëèëèñü èç Äèêàíüêè â Áàëÿñíîå â íà÷àëå 19 âåêà (ðàáî÷àÿ âåðñèÿ).
Ãäå-òî â ýòî æå âðåìÿ, â 1801 ãîäó Â.Ï. Êî÷óáåé ïåðåñåëÿåò ÷àñòü ñâîèõ êðåñòüÿí èç Äèêàíüêè è äðóãèõ ñåëåíèé â Õåðñîíñêèé óåçä â ñåëî Çàãðÿäîâêó (îò áûâø. âëàäåëüöåâ Çàãðÿæñêèõ, ðîäñòâåííèêîâ Êî÷óáåÿ).
[q]
1801 ãîäà Àâãóñòà 1ãî äíÿ Ïèñüìî <Èâàíà ,> Ìåñîíà ê Ãðàôó Â. Ï. Êî÷óáåþ ñ [/q]
[q]
1804 ãîäà Ñåíòÿáðÿ 16 äíÿ. Ïèñüìî Ìåñîíà ê Ãðàôó Â. Ï. Êî÷óáåþ , êîòîðûì äîíîñèò , ÷òî : [/q]
[q]
1805 ãîäà Äåêàáðÿ 22 äíÿ. Ïèñüìî Ìåñîíà ê Ãðàôó Â. Ï. Êî÷óáåþ ñ äîíåñåíèåì î ðàçíûõ [/q]
Òàê âîò ÷òî èíòåðåñíî, îäíà èç ïðåäêîâûõ ëèíèé ó íàøåãî ñîâïàäåíöà ïðîèñõîäèò êàê ðàç èç Õåðñîíñêîé îáëàñòè. È ÷òî áîëåå èíòåðåñíî, ôàìèëèÿ ñîâïàäàåò ñ òåìè êòî ïðîæèâàë â Äèêàíüêå åùå â 1718 ãîäó.
Äðóãîé ñîâïàäåíåö, âîçìîæíî òîæå èìååò àíàëîãè÷íóþ ñâÿçü ñ Ïîëòàâùèíîé, òàê êàê ïðåäêè ïðîèñõîäÿò ñ Îäåññêîé îáëàñòè.
Åñëè áðàòü îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî, 6-òè þðîäíîå ðîäñòâî ïðèõîäèòñÿ ãäå-òî íà ñåð XVIII âåêà, ÷òî âïîëíå ïîäõîäèò ïîä îïèñûâàåìóþ ñõåìó âîçìîæíûõ ñâÿçåé.
Íåìàëîâàæíàÿ äåòàëü, ïðåäñòàâèòåëè ñîâïàäàþùåé ôàìèëèè ñåé÷àñ ïðîæèâàþò â Äèêàíüêå. Õîðîøèé ôàêò, ïîääåðæèâàþùèé èíòåðåñ ê ÄÍÊ-ãåíåàëîãèè íà áëèæàéøåå áóäóùåå.
 ïîðó äàâàòü çåðêàëüíîå íàçâàíèå òåìå ïðîåêòà "Ïîëòàâùèíà è åå ïåðåñåëåíöû"
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genkt Õåðñîí
Ñîîáùåíèé: 163
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2010 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 356
Íàâåðõ ## 13 äåêàáðÿ 2013 16:08 borisovichi íàïèñàë:
[q]
 ïîðó äàâàòü çåðêàëüíîå íàçâàíèå òåìå ïðîåêòà "Ïîëòàâùèíà è åå ïåðåñåëåíöû"[/q]
ýòî òî÷íî
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borisovichi Ñîîáùåíèé: 453
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2011 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 1173
Íàâåðõ ## 13 äåêàáðÿ 2013 22:09 100% Orcadian VS 100% Ukrainian 100% Orcadian VS 100% Ukrainian Ê âîïðîñó èíòåðïðåòàöèè ðåçóëüòàòà Family Finder ðàçëè÷íûìè ýòíî-ïîïóëÿöèîííûìè êàëüêóëÿòîðàìè
Èíòåðåñíà "ðàñøèôðîâêà" àóòîñîì ìîåé áàáóøêè, âåðîÿòíîãî "ïîëíîãî óêðàèíöà" (
100% Ukranian ), ó êîòîðîé 2 äåäóøêè òî÷íî óêðàèíöû (ñàìûå äàëüíèå ïðåäêè: Ñîõàíü è Êàëüíèê èç Äèêàíüêè, êîí. 17 âåêà) è äâå áàáóøêè, ïðåäïîëîæèòåëüíî óðîæåíêè ññ. Íàäåæäà è Áàëÿñíîå Äèêàíüñêîãî ð-íà (2 ïîë. 19 âåêà).
Eurogenes K13 Admixture Proportions This utility uses the Eurogenes K13 model (rev 21 Nov 2013), created by Davidski (Polako)
Population
13 population clusters. North_Atlantic 29.08%
Baltic 43.24% West_Med 12.40%
West_Asian 5.52%
East_Med 4.73%
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 2.09%
East_Asian 0.48%
Siberian 1.58%
Amerindian 0.65%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.24%
Sub-Saharan -
GEDmatch.Com Oracle This program is based on 'Oracle v1' by Dienekes Pontikos. His original program was developed as part of the Dodecad Ancestry Project.
Eurogenes K13 Oracle results: K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013
Single Population Sharing: # Population (source) Distance
1
Ukrainian 1.89 2 Polish 2.98
3 Ukrainian_West 3.24
4 Russian 5.12
5 Ukrainian_Northeast 6.93
6 Belorussian 7.37
7 Kargopol_Russian 9.49
8 Estonian 10.27
9 Lithuanian 11.1
10 Southwest_Finnish 11.1
11 Finnish 11.67
12 Hungarian 11.85
13 Erzya 12.61
14 East_Finnish 12.81
15 Austrian 13.22
16 North_Swedish 16.01
17 Serbian 17.83
18 Swedish 20.49
19 German 20.91
20 Romanian 21.68
Mixed Mode Population Sharing: # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.6% Ukrainian + 5.4% Norwegian @ 1.43
2 92.8% Ukrainian + 7.2% North_Swedish @ 1.44
3 94.5% Ukrainian + 5.5% Swedish @ 1.47
4 90.3% Ukrainian + 9.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 1.47
5 95.9% Ukrainian + 4.1% West_Scottish @ 1.49
6 95.6% Ukrainian + 4.4% Orcadian @ 1.49
7 95.6% Ukrainian + 4.4% Danish @ 1.49
8 95.8% Ukrainian + 4.2% Irish @ 1.5
9 96% Ukrainian + 4% Southwest_English @ 1.51
10 95.2% Ukrainian + 4.8% Dutch @ 1.51
11 95.9% Ukrainian + 4.1% Southeast_English @ 1.54
12 95.5% Ukrainian + 4.5% German @ 1.61
13 97.8% Ukrainian + 2.2% French_Basque @ 1.61
14 75.5% Ukrainian + 24.5% Polish @ 1.72
15 97.7% Ukrainian + 2.3% Southwest_French @ 1.72
16 97.3% Ukrainian + 2.7% French @ 1.74
17 98% Ukrainian + 2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.75
18 98.2% Ukrainian + 1.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.75
19 94.4% Ukrainian + 5.6% Finnish @ 1.76
20 93.8% Ukrainian + 6.2% Estonian @ 1.77
Gedmatch.Com This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Revised: Dec 6, 2012
Using 1 population approximation:
1
Ukrainian @ 2.636 2 Polish @ 3.448
3 Ukrainian_West @ 4.104
4 Russian @ 5.706
5 Ukrainian_Northeast @ 7.833
6 Belorussian @ 7.911
7 Kargopol_Russian @ 10.345
8 Estonian @ 11.238
9 Lithuanian @ 12.141
10 Southwest_Finnish @ 12.384
Using 2 populations approximation:
1
50% Polish +50% Ukrainian @ 2.478 2
50% Ukrainian +50% Ukrainian @ 2.636 3 50% Polish +50% Russian @ 2.769
4 50% Ukrainian +50% Ukrainian_West @ 3.168
5 50% Polish +50% Ukrainian_West @ 3.219
6 50% Polish +50% Polish @ 3.448
7 50% Hungarian +50% Lithuanian @ 3.706
8 50% Russian +50% Ukrainian @ 3.742
9 50% Russian +50% Ukrainian_West @ 3.892
10 50% Austrian +50% Lithuanian @ 4.008
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Polish +25% Russian +25% Ukrainian @ 2.338
2
50% Ukrainian +25% Polish +25% Ukrainian @ 2.392 3 50% Polish +25% Ukrainian +25% Ukrainian @ 2.478
4 50% Ukrainian +25% Polish +25% Polish @ 2.478
5 50% Polish +25% Polish +25% Russian @ 2.478
6 50% Ukrainian +25% Polish +25% Russian @ 2.536
7 50% Lithuanian +25% Erzya +25% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.546
8 50% Ukrainian +25% Austrian +25% Lithuanian @ 2.554
9 50% Ukrainian +25% Hungarian +25% Lithuanian @ 2.568
10 50% Polish +25% Russian +25% Ukrainian_West @ 2.574
Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Polish + Polish + Russian + Ukrainian @ 2.338
2
Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.392 3 Austrian + Lithuanian + Russian + Ukrainian @ 2.426
4 Polish + Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.478
5 Polish + Polish + Polish + Russian @ 2.478
6 Polish + Russian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.536
7 Erzya + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.546
8 Austrian + Lithuanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.554
9 Hungarian + Lithuanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.568
10 Polish + Polish + Russian + Ukrainian_West @ 2.574
11 Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.636
12 Austrian + Estonian + Russian + Ukrainian @ 2.638
13 Hungarian + Lithuanian + Russian + Ukrainian @ 2.638
14 Austrian + Lithuanian + Russian + Ukrainian_West @ 2.646
15 Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_West @ 2.662
16 Austrian + Lithuanian + Polish + Russian @ 2.664
17 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + North_Italian @ 2.667
18 Austrian + Estonian + Russian + Russian @ 2.688
19 Estonian + Hungarian + Russian + Ukrainian @ 2.697
20 Polish + Russian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_West @ 2.704
Gedmatch.Com This program is based on Larry Smiser's Population Fitting spreadsheet.
179 populations found.
Pct. Calc. Option 2
1
Ukrainian 84.43% 2 Lithuanian 3.00%
3 West_Scottish 2.74%
4 East_Finnish 2.26%
5 French_Basque 1.94%
6 Mari 1.88%
7 Norwegian 1.44%
8 Russian 1.20%
9 Chamar 1.10%
10 Southwest_English 0.00%
Pct. Calc. Option 1
1
Ukrainian 66.23% 2 Lithuanian 15.00%
3 Russian 10.32%
4 French_Basque 5.26%
5 Southwest_Finnish 2.09%
6 Chamar 1.06%
7 Polish 0.01%
8 Ukrainian_West 0.01%
9 North_Italian 0.01%
10 Romanian 0.01%
×òî è òðåáîâàëîñü ïîêàçàòü ---
