Searching for my roots - Molchanov
Molchanov in Koursk and Bryansk area
Tasha56Ïî÷åòíûé ó÷àcòíèê  Ðîññèÿ Ñîîáùåíèé: 12645 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 41422 | Íàâåðõ ##
8 íîÿáðÿ 2015 23:06 8 íîÿáðÿ 2015 23:09 orionbuffeBryansk region was formed by the decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR on 5 July 1944. The region included the city of Bryansk, Klintsy and beica, Brasovsky, Bryansky settlement, vygonichsky, Gordeev, Dubrovsky, Dyatkovo, Giradischi, Zhukovsky, zlynkovsky, Karachevsky, Klemanski, klimovskii, klintsovskiy, Komaričskaâ, Krasnogorsk, Mglinskogo, Navlinskoy, Novozybkov, Pogarsky, Ponurovsky, pochepsky, Rognedinskaya, Sevsk, Starodub, Suzemsky, surazhskaya, Trubchevsky, Unechsky areas, separated from the Oryol region. [q] Áðÿíñêàÿ îáëàñòü áûëà îáðàçîâàíà Óêàçîì Ïðåçèäèóìà Âåðõîâíîãî Ñîâåòà ÑÑÑÐ 5 èþëÿ 1944 ãîäà.  ñîñòàâ îáëàñòè áûëè âêëþ÷åíû ãîðîäà Áðÿíñê, Áåæèöà è Êëèíöû, Áðàñîâñêèé, Áðÿíñêèé, Âûãîíè÷ñêèé, Ãîðäååâñêèé, Äóáðîâñêèé, Äÿòüêîâñêèé, Æèðÿòèíñêèé, Æóêîâñêèé, Çëûíêîâñêèé, Êàðà÷åâñêèé, Êëåòíÿíñêèé, Êëèìîâñêèé, Êëèíöîâñêèé, Êîìàðè÷ñêèé, Êðàñíîãîðñêèé, Ìãëèíñêèé, Íàâëèíñêèé, Íîâîçûáêîâñêèé, Ïîãàðñêèé, Ïîíóðîâñêèé, Ïî÷åïñêèé, Ðîãíåäèíñêèé, Ñåâñêèé, Ñòàðîäóáñêèé, Ñóçåìñêèé, Ñóðàæñêèé, Òðóá÷åâñêèé, Óíå÷ñêèé ðàéîíû, âûäåëåííûå èç ñîñòàâà Îðëîâñêîé îáëàñòè.
[/q]
Place of birth mother listed on the birth of her son. Imagine a city with different districts (streets)....Specific place of birth is not specified, only the region. --- ✅ Âîïðîñû ïî ïîèñêó, àäðåñîâàííûå ìíå, ïîæàëóéñòà, êðåïèòå â òåìó äíåâíèêà >>>
ÄÍÅÂÍÈÊ >> (×åðíèãîâñêàÿ, Êîñòðîìñêàÿ ãóá., Àëòàéñêèé êðàé, Ìîñêâà..) | | |
Tasha56Ïî÷åòíûé ó÷àcòíèê Ðîññèÿ Ñîîáùåíèé: 12645 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 41422 | Íàâåðõ ##
8 íîÿáðÿ 2015 23:18 8 íîÿáðÿ 2015 23:27 orionbuffe
Ïèøó íà ðóññêîì, èíà÷å íå ìîãó ïîÿñíèòü, à Âû ìåíÿ íå ïîíèìàåòå.
Ìåñòîì ðîæäåíèÿ ñûíà óêàçàíû àäìèíèñòðàòèâíûå åäèíèöû íà ãîä åãî ðîæäåíèÿ, à ìåñòî ìàòåðè óêàçàíî ïî ÀÒÄ íà ãîä åãî ðîæäåíèÿ, ïðè÷åì òîëüêî ðåãèîí ðîæäåíèÿ.
Áðÿíñê ïî èñòîðèè ÀÒÄ ïîáûâàë è â Áðÿíñêîé è â Îðëîâñêîé îáëàñòè, îòñþäà òàêàÿ è íåïîíÿòíàÿ çàïèñü.....
Âû ïèøèòå, ÷òî òåõíè÷åñêè ýòî íåâîçìîæíî. Âîçìîæíî. Äëÿ ýòîãî ìû èçó÷àåì èñòîðèþ ÀÒÄ (àäìèíèñòðàòèâíî-òåððèòîðèàëüíîå äåëåíèå) èññëåäóåìîãî íàñåëåííîãî ìåñòà...
Òðóäíî ðàçãîâàðèâàòü íà ðàçíûõ ÿçûêàõ. Â ñïîð íå âñòóïàþ, îñòàâëÿþ ïëîùàäêó êîëëåãàì.....
(It is difficult to speak different languages...) --- ✅ Âîïðîñû ïî ïîèñêó, àäðåñîâàííûå ìíå, ïîæàëóéñòà, êðåïèòå â òåìó äíåâíèêà >>>
ÄÍÅÂÍÈÊ >> (×åðíèãîâñêàÿ, Êîñòðîìñêàÿ ãóá., Àëòàéñêèé êðàé, Ìîñêâà..) | | |
| orionbuffe Íîâè÷îê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2015 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 4 | Íàâåðõ ##
8 íîÿáðÿ 2015 23:30 Well, thank you Tasha, you've learned me something about Lina, that's already a great thing, thanks a lot ! ---
Sorry for my Russian. | | |
| Kfin | Íàâåðõ ##
8 íîÿáðÿ 2015 23:40 Tasha56 íàïèñàë: [q] à ìåñòî ìàòåðè óêàçàíî ïî ÀÒÄ íà ãîä åãî ðîæäåíèÿ, ïðè÷åì òîëüêî ðåãèîí ðîæäåíèÿ.[/q]
Êàæåòñÿ, Áðÿíñêàÿ îáëàñòü áûëà îáðàçîâàíà â 1944 ãîäó. À êîãäà Áðÿíñê âõîäèë â Îðëîâñêóþ îáëàñòü? | | |
Geo Z LT Ñîîáùåíèé: 19768 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 13338 | Íàâåðõ ##
8 íîÿáðÿ 2015 23:46 Kfin íàïèñàë: [q] À êîãäà Áðÿíñê âõîäèë â Îðëîâñêóþ îáëàñòü?[/q]
Áðÿ́íñêàÿ î́áëàñòü Îáðàçîâàíà 5 èþëÿ 1944 ãîäà ïóò¸ì âûäåëåíèÿ èç Îðëîâñêîé îáëàñòè ÷àñòè ðàéîíîâ, ðàñïîëàãàâøèõñÿ ïðèáëèçèòåëüíî â ãðàíèöàõ ñóùåñòâîâàâøåé ðàíåå Áðÿíñêîé ãóáåðíèè. | | |
gachóøëà èç æèçíè 13.07.2019 ã. Ñâåòëàÿ ïàìÿòü  Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 1108 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2009 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 2668 | Íàâåðõ ##
9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 2:53 I think we've confused poor orionbuffe  The main point is that your great-grandmother was born in Briansk. And ZAGS's records for this year are not available. So the question is how else you can get information about Tamara's family. For example, you can try to look for the records of her sisters birth in Lgov in 1920-th. At that period ZAGS's pointed the parent’s age in birth records. So if you succeed to find these you’ ll learn the age of Tamara’s parents and calculate the date of their birth. ß äóìàþ, ÷åëîâåêà ñîâñåì çàïóòàëè. Áðÿíñêèé îáëÇÀÃÑ ÿñíî ïèøåò: ñìîòðåëè ñ 19 ïî 25 ãã., çàïèñü íå íàéäåíà. Ìåæäó òåì orionbuffe òî÷íî çíàåò ìåñòî - Áðÿíñê - è äàòó ðîæäåíèÿ ïðàïðàáàáóøêè Òàìàðû. Âîïðîñ, êàêèì îáðàçîì ìîæíî åùå ÷òî-òî óçíàòü î ñåìüå Òàìàðû? Ìîé âàðèàíò: ïîèñêàòü ðîæäåíèå åå ñåñòåð âî Ëüãîâå, êóäà ñåìüÿ ïåðååõàëà âñêîðå ïîñëå ðîæäåíèÿ Òàìàðû.  1920-å ãîäû â çàïèñÿõ ÇÀÃÑà ïèñàëè (íå çíàþ, âñþäó ëè è äî êàêîãî ãîäà) âîçðàñò ðîäèòåëåé è ïðîôåññèþ. Åñëè îíà íàéäåò õîòü îäíó òàêóþ çàïèñü, òî ñìîæåò ïðèêèíóòü ãîä ðîæäåíèÿ ðîäèòåëåé Òàìàðû. È îòòàëêèâàÿñü îò ýòîãî, ñìîæåò èñêàòü óæå äàëüøå. Åñëè, êîíå÷íî, àðõèâû ÇÀÃÑà ñîõðàíèëèñü. ---
Âñå ëè÷íûå äàííûå, ìîè è ìîåé ñåìüè, ðàçìåùåíû ìíîþ íà ñàéòå ñ ñîãëàñèÿ ðîäñòâåííèêîâ
×åðìåíñêèå (Êåðåíñê, Ñàðàòîâ), Ëóïåéêî/Ëóïåéêà (Ëèòâà, ÑØÀ), Ðåíêå è Âåíãëèíñêèå (Êèåâ, Ðàäîìûøëü), Êâÿòêîâñêèå (Ìèíñêàÿ ãóá), Åëîçèíû (Àðêàäàê) | | |
Tasha56Ïî÷åòíûé ó÷àcòíèê Ðîññèÿ Ñîîáùåíèé: 12645 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 41422 | Íàâåðõ ##
9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 10:29 9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 10:58 gach[q] Áðÿíñêèé îáëÇÀÃÑ[/q]
Óïðàâëåíèå ÇÀÃÑ Áðÿíñêîé îáëàñòè. Òåïåðü ïîñìîòðèòå íà ñòðóêòóðó ýòîãî óïðàâëåíèÿ - Ñòðóêòóðà óïðàâëåíèÿ çàïèñè àêòîâ ãðàæäàíñêîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ Áðÿíñêîé îáëàñòè http://www.zagsbrk.ru/DOC/struktura.pdfÊàê è Ìîñêâà Áðÿíñê - ãîðîä ñ ðàéîíàìè è ðàéîííûìè îòäåëàìè ÇÀÃÑ. Çàïðîñ î ïîâòîðíîì ñâèäåòåëüñòâå î ðîæäåíèè (çàïîëíÿåòñÿ ôîðìà 18) íàïðàâëÿåòñÿ â òåððèòîðèàëüíûé îòäåë ÇÀÃÑ, ãäå áûë âûäàí îðèãèíàë äîêóìåíòà. Äà, (ïðèìåð) Âû - óðîæåíêà Ìîñêâû, íî äîêóìåíò ãðàæäàíñêîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ (î ðîæäåíèè, áðàêå, ñìåðòè) Âû áóäåòå èñêàòü íå â Óïðàâëåíèè ÇÀÃÑ Ìîñêâû, à â àðõèâå îïðåäåëåííîãî ðàéîííîãî îòäåëåíèÿ ÇÀÃÑ (âûäàâøåì êîãäà-òî îðèãèíàë äîêóìåíòà....ÇÀÃÑû â Ðîññèè ïîÿâèëèñü â 1918 ãîäó, â Ñèáèðè â 1920).... Âû ñ÷èòàåòå, ÷òî îòâåò ïîëó÷åí íå ôîðìàëüíûé (ôîðìà 35)? ÇÀÃÑû ïîäòâåðæäàþò ôàêò ãðàæäàíñêîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ, îïèðàÿñü íà äàííûå, âïèñàííûå â ôîðìó 18 (çàïðîñà), íî íå çàíèìàþòñÿ ïîèñêîì ïî ðàéîííûì îòäåëåíèÿì ÇÀÃÑ (òî÷íåå...ïîèñêîì â ïðÿìîì ñìûñëå áåç óêàçàííûõ êîîðäèíàò). Îíè íå ãåíåàëîãè è ïîèñêîì ðîäîñëîâèÿ íå çàíèìàþòñÿ..... Îá ýòîì ñîîáùàåòñÿ è â ïîñëåäíåì ïèñüìå èç Êóðñêîé îáëàñòè..... [q] You believe that no response has been received the formal form (35)? Offices confirm that civil status, relying on data entered in form 18 (the request), but not seeking for regional offices ZAGS (more precisely. Search in the truest sense without the specified coordinates). They are not a genealogy search and genealogies are not engaged ...
This was reported in the last letter of the Kursk region ...[/q]
Ñìîæåòå ýòî äîñëîâíî ïåðåâåñòè ó÷àñòíèêó ôîðóìà? P.S. Ïðàáàáóøêà áûëà ðîæäåíà â 1924 ãîäó. Áðÿíñê â ýòîò ãîä (ïî ÀÒÄ) áûë öåíòðîì Áðÿíñêîé ãóáåðíèè. Àäìèíèñòðàòèâíûå åäèíèöû áûëè äðóãèå. Óêàçàíî, ÷òî îíà áûëà åâàíãåëèñòêîé (ïî íàøåìó áàïòèñòêîé)......íå áûëà êðåùåíà â ïðàâîñëàâíîé öåðêâè (íîâîîáðàùåííàÿ?)....è ò.ä. è ò.ï.  Áðÿíñêå ìíîãî (áûëî è åñòü) ìîíàñòûðåé, õðàìîâ, öåðêâåé... http://transer.org/ --- ✅ Âîïðîñû ïî ïîèñêó, àäðåñîâàííûå ìíå, ïîæàëóéñòà, êðåïèòå â òåìó äíåâíèêà >>>
ÄÍÅÂÍÈÊ >> (×åðíèãîâñêàÿ, Êîñòðîìñêàÿ ãóá., Àëòàéñêèé êðàé, Ìîñêâà..) | | |
| kbg_dnepr
Äíèïðî (áûâø. Äíåïðîïåòðîâñê)
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7047
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 4363
| Íàâåðõ ##
9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 11:28 9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 11:35 orionbuffe
They write in the answer, that you can't get the answer directly from ZAGS, you have to contact Russian Consulat in the contry you live, show them papers confirming that Tamara is your relative, and then they will sent the inquiry their way.
But what do you need in fact? The paper about Tamara's birth or information about her parents, their parents etc.? In this case there may be other ways. To seek those other ways, we must know available facts.
What I understand:
your gggparents were Semion and Angelina Tikhonovna Molchanov. What else do you know about them? Patronym of Semion? Was Tamara their first child? How old may they have been 1922? What do you know about their status - farmers, merchants, workers, clerics, nobles?
Were there relatives, who stayed in Russia?
Molchanov is not a rare name, so it doesn't have much sense to search for other Molchanovs in the region, they may be not connected.
I looked up the losses in the WWI svrt.ru/1914/0o-1914.htm; there were no Molchanovs from Bryansk. ---
Êàòåðèíà
Ãëóøàê (Áðÿíñê.) Êîâàëåâ, Ôåäîñåíêî (Ìîãèëåâñê.)
Îãëîòêîâ (Ãîðáàò. ó. ÍÃÃ) Àëüêèí Æàðêîâ Êóëüäèøîâ Áàëàíäèí (Ñèìá. ãóá.)
Êëûøêèí Âëàñåíêî Ñàêóíîâ Êó÷åðÿâåíêî (Ãëóõîâ)
Êèðè÷åíêî Áîíäàðåíêî Áåëîóñ Ñòðàøíûé (Íîâîìîñê. Äíåïðîï.) | | |
gachóøëà èç æèçíè 13.07.2019 ã. Ñâåòëàÿ ïàìÿòü Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 1108 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2009 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 2668 | Íàâåðõ ##
9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 22:17 orionbuffe, this is a translation of your post. ) Ïåðåâåäó íà âñÿêèé ñëó÷àé, âäðóã êòî-òî åùå çàõî÷åòñÿ ïîäêëþ÷èòüñÿ è ÷òî-òî ïîñîâåòîâàòü. Õîòÿ ÿ íå çíàþ ïîë, â ïðîôèëå óêàçàí ìóæ÷èíà, íî ïî÷åìó-òî êàæåòñÿ, ÷òî ýòî æåíùèíà.  Ïðåæäå âñåãî ÿ ñâÿçàëñÿ ñ Ðîññèéñêèì êîíñóëüñòâîì â Áåëüãèè, è òàì ìíå ñêàçàëè, ÷òî íå ïîìîãóò ïîìî÷ü, ÷òî ÿ äîëæåí îáðàòèòüñÿ â ÇÀÃÑ. (È äàëè ìíå êîíòàêòû). À äëÿ Êóðñêîãî ÇÀÃÑà ÿ íå ìîãó äîêàçàòü ðîäñòâî, ïîñêîëüêó ÿ çàïðàøèâàë çàïèñü î ðîæäåíèè ñåñòðû Òàìàðû, Âàëåíòèíû. (À ïîòîìêè Âàëåíòèíû æèâóò ãäå-òî â Êàíàäå). Ìíå íóæíà çàïèñü î ðîæäåíèè, ÷òîáû óçíàòü ÷òî-òî î ðîäèòåëÿõ Òàìàðû. Èëè ïîëó÷èòü õîòü êàêóþ-òî äðóãóþ èíôîðìàöèþ, êîòîðàÿ ïîìîæåò ìíå äâèãàòüñÿ äàëüøå. ß íè÷åãî áîëüøå íå çíàþ î Ñåìåíå è (Àíãå)Ëèíå. Òîëüêî ÷òî îòåö Ñåìåíà áûë êóëàêîì. (ß ïûòàëñÿ èñêàòü ñïèñêè êóëàêîâ, íå çíàþ, åñòü ëè òàêèå). Ìàòü Àíãåëèíû áûëà óêðàèíêîé. Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, ýòî âñå, ÷òî ÿ çíàþ. Ó ìåíÿ åñòü èõ ôîòî, ñäåëàííîå â ãîä, êîãäà Òàìàðå áûëî 30, îíè íå âûãëÿäÿò òàêèìè óæ ñòàðûìè, äóìàþ, îíè ðîäèëèñü ïðèìåðíî â 1895-1900. Äâå åå ñåñòðû îñòàëèñü â Ðîññèè, îäíà Ëþäìèëà (Ëþñÿ), æèëà â Ðîñòîâå-íà-Äîíó, îíà óìåðëà. Îíà áûëà êàê-òî ñâÿçàíà ñ ÊÃÁ. Âòîðàÿ, Èðà, âåðîÿòíî, â Êóðñêå, íàâåðíîå, åå òîæå óæå íåò. (Ïîñëåäíèé ðàç íàøà ñåìüÿ ñâÿçûâàëàñü ñ íèìè â 1960-ì). Èíîãäà ÿ æàëåþ, ÷òî íå ðîäèëñÿ ðàíüøå. Áëàãîäàðþ âàñ âñåõ, âû ïîòðÿñàþùèå. ---
Âñå ëè÷íûå äàííûå, ìîè è ìîåé ñåìüè, ðàçìåùåíû ìíîþ íà ñàéòå ñ ñîãëàñèÿ ðîäñòâåííèêîâ
×åðìåíñêèå (Êåðåíñê, Ñàðàòîâ), Ëóïåéêî/Ëóïåéêà (Ëèòâà, ÑØÀ), Ðåíêå è Âåíãëèíñêèå (Êèåâ, Ðàäîìûøëü), Êâÿòêîâñêèå (Ìèíñêàÿ ãóá), Åëîçèíû (Àðêàäàê) | | |
gachóøëà èç æèçíè 13.07.2019 ã. Ñâåòëàÿ ïàìÿòü Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 1108 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2009 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 2668 | Íàâåðõ ##
9 íîÿáðÿ 2015 23:51 Tasha56 íàïèñàëà: [q] Çàïðîñ î ïîâòîðíîì ñâèäåòåëüñòâå î ðîæäåíèè (çàïîëíÿåòñÿ ôîðìà 18) íàïðàâëÿåòñÿ â òåððèòîðèàëüíûé îòäåë ÇÀÃÑ, ãäå áûë âûäàí îðèãèíàë äîêóìåíòà. Äà, (ïðèìåð) Âû - óðîæåíêà Ìîñêâû, íî äîêóìåíò ãðàæäàíñêîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ (î ðîæäåíèè, áðàêå, ñìåðòè) Âû áóäåòå èñêàòü íå â Óïðàâëåíèè ÇÀÃÑ Ìîñêâû, à â àðõèâå îïðåäåëåííîãî ðàéîííîãî îòäåëåíèÿ ÇÀÃÑ [/q]
Íå ìîãó ñîãëàñèòüñÿ. Äà, òàê â Ìîñêâå. Íî, íàïðèìåð, â Åêàòåðèíáóðãå ìíå âûäàëè áóìàãè î ñìåðòè ìîèõ áàáóøêè è ïðàáàáóøêè â ãîðîäñêîì îòäåëå ÇÀÃÑà, ÿ è íå çíàëà,â êàêîì ðàéîíå ãîðîäà îíè æèëè, òàê êàê îíè óìåðëè çàäîëãî äî ìîåãî ðîæäåíèÿ. À à ìàëåíüêîì Áðÿíñêå, äóìàþ, âñå åùå ïðîùå. ×òî êàñàåòñÿ âåðîèñïîâåäàíèÿ - evangelist ìîæíî ïåðåâåñòè è êàê ïðîòåñòàíò. Íî áûëî áû ñòðàííî, åñëè áû Ìîë÷àíîâû îêàçàëèñü ïðîòåñòàíòàìè. Âîçìîæíî, Òàìàðà ïîìåíÿëà êîíôåññèþ óæå â Ãåðìàíèè. orionbuffeHaven't you look for Valentina's descendants in Canada? I believe it's quite possible to find them. Perhars, they know something important about your common ancestors. As to confession I doubt Tamara was baptized as evangelist, most likely she was orthodox. She could changed a confession in Germany. I think also that you should adress to Consulate once more and insist that they help you. Show them the letter you' ve got from Kursk ZAGS. We have to be persistent with officials. ---
Âñå ëè÷íûå äàííûå, ìîè è ìîåé ñåìüè, ðàçìåùåíû ìíîþ íà ñàéòå ñ ñîãëàñèÿ ðîäñòâåííèêîâ
×åðìåíñêèå (Êåðåíñê, Ñàðàòîâ), Ëóïåéêî/Ëóïåéêà (Ëèòâà, ÑØÀ), Ðåíêå è Âåíãëèíñêèå (Êèåâ, Ðàäîìûøëü), Êâÿòêîâñêèå (Ìèíñêàÿ ãóá), Åëîçèíû (Àðêàäàê) | | |
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