Martinoff (Мартынов)
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28 января 2012 21:02 F. MartinoffI would not argue that these arms are similar to the Swedish or the Baltic. They are consistent with the traditions of "chancellery's" (канцелярской) heraldry of the Russian Empire of the 19th century. The first CoA is really kind of similar to the arms of Märten (is it possible that Martynovs and Märtens - relatives ???), but neither this nor the other is "canting". F. Martinoff написал: [q] BUT...I was hoping to find the Arms from A. Martinoff at the Corps des Pages,
this might have led me to our origin,
but sadly the documents are somewhere??? in France!?[/q]
If you know his genealogy, and he came from a noble family, the possibility exists to find his arms. Where does his family? From what area? | | |
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28 января 2012 22:56 His family (my family  ) is from Riga, I am stuck in the year around 1705  ! ___________________________________________________ Canting arms are heraldic bearings that represent the bearer's name in a visual pun or rebus. In many Martin, Marten, Martini, Maertens Arms you find a white goose, bird, swan, Pelikan etc. all hinting to St. Martin, also known as Martin of Tours! | | |
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28 января 2012 23:16 F. MartinoffF. Martinoff написал: [q] His family (my family ) is from Riga,
I am stuck in the year around 1705 ![/q]
But the etymology (origin) of surnames obviously Russian. Or surname was russificated (converted into Russian)? Were your ancestors recorded in Noble Genealogical Books ( Дворянские Родословные книги) of Baltic provinces or other provinces? F. Martinoff написал: [q] In many Martin, Marten, Martini, Maertens Arms you find a white goose, bird, swan, Pelikan etc. all hinting to St. Martin, also known as Martin of Tours![/q]
Many experts believe that " canting" can be called only one CoA, figures of which clearly indicate the surname. For example, a lion in the arms of Lvov or eagle in the arms of Orlov etc.  | | |
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28 января 2012 23:33 Here is my problem, ...let's say one of many problems! " production of the requisite gentilitial proofs."
Ahnenprobe = Adelsprobe
That means both parents and 4 Grandparents on the male and female side!I leave it in it's original language! Time; Concerning the End of the 19th Century, published 1885-1892 ! Quote: http://www.retrobibliothek.de/retrobib/seite.html?id=100431"""Nur für den Eintritt in das Domkapitel zu Olmütz, für den preußischen Johanniter-, den Deutschen, den Malteser-, den bayrischen St. Georgs- und einige andre Orden sowie für die Kammerherrenstellen ist heute noch eine Ahnenprobe erforderlich.""" Autorenkollektiv, Verlag des Bibliographischen Instituts, Leipzig und Wien, Vierte Auflage, 1885-1892 | | |
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29 января 2012 0:04 or in my words,
At the end of the 19th Century you still needed to show proof of nobility
to become a member of the Maltese Order!
"that included both parents and all four Grand Parents"
That's why the documents were so important to me!
This was the same, if it was in England, Russia, France, Italy, Germany, Poland, Bohemia......
or other Countries!
The same under Paul!!!! | | |
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29 января 2012 0:15 Both Rome and Malta said that they don't have them and that the documents are in St. Petersburg,
but St. Petersburg says, that a french Priest has the documents in France! | | |
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1 февраля 2012 5:07 | | |
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1 февраля 2012 10:11 1 февраля 2012 10:15 F. Martinoff написал: [q] The example you gave, in the two links, do make sense,
but if you believe that in my picture the depicted award is the St. Vladimir Order, shouldn't there be red jewels just like in your example!
But the stones are all white, the closest would be the St. George Order,
...but the St. George was solely a military award, .....and possibly unfitting for a Head Priest of the Maltese Chapel of St. John ............or maybe I am wrong?[/q]
Hi F. Martinoff, There was no such thing as St. Vladimir’s cross with diamonds. The example you saw is an early version of St. Anna’s cross which is a different order. I don’t remember exactly at what particular cases diamonds were added to a regular cross. Do you by any chance have a higher resolution version of the second (earlier) group photo? If yes, then could you please upload an enlarged section with the same cross as well? Could you also enlarge the neck cross worn by the officer who sits next to Martynoff? It will give you a reference image for comparison. At this point I also suspect that we see St. Vladimir 3rd class. Sometimes a glossy surface reflects light this way and a cross looks white on pictures. BTW. You probably know it but just in case. The first (larger) group picture was taken at 1902 at the Centennial celebration of the Corps. The group includes current and former Corps’ staff members. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lwe...l/Cen.htmlRegards, Vladimir | | |
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1 февраля 2012 10:55 | | |
F. MartinoffСообщений: 247 На сайте с 2006 г. Рейтинг: 14 | Наверх ##
1 февраля 2012 11:06 "1902 at the Centennial celebration of the Corps"
Thank you, but yes I know!
Based on the info of the Corps des Pages, he was still there,
meaning not as former Staff Member, but as current Staff Member!
Could they be wrong!?
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Also.... I can't find the information when and where he died and where he is buried!
As if he never existed, if I didn't have these pictures and documents of him,
nobody would have believed me! | | |
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