Ïîòîìêè ðóññêèõ âîåííûõ â Ôèíëÿíäèè
Ïîèñê ðîäñòâåííèêîâ âîåííîñëóæàùèõ Ðîññèéñêîé èìïåðèè íà òåððèòîðèè Ôèíëÿíäèè (XIX âåê)
| babay Ó÷àñòíèê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 51 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 32 | Ââåðõ #6 ôåâðàëÿ 2017 23:08Èùó ðîäñòâåííèêîâ ñâîåãî ïðåäêà - êàçàêà Âîò òàêîå ñîîáùåíèå îò æèòåëüíèöû Ôèíëÿíäèè:
"I am searching for my unknown great-great-grandfather (on my father's side).
This is all we know, or this is the strongest theory: He served in the Russian army and was located in West-Finland, in Pälkäne (between the cities of Hämeenlinna and Tampere) in 1864. About the divisions in that time and that region this: ”In Tavastehus region there were: 7th Finlandish (Russian not Finnish) battalion, the 11, 12 batallions, then 5th batallion, then one of the battalions of Vilmanstrand regiment. They were from 22nd Division. There were also some squards - Cossacks, sappers, artillery and others.” His son, my great-grandfather Kaarlo Tiililä was born in december 1864. The story tells that Kaarlo’s father’s name was Grigori and he was perhaps a cossack. But this can also be just a story. Another weaker theory is that the father would have been a syrveyor (topographer). They were also in the Pälkäne area in that time. Kaarlo’s mother was a widow in the Tiililä house. Her husband, the master of Tiililä house, had died long before Kaarlo was born but Kaarlo became the name of the Tiililä family. We dont know whether Kaarlo was born as a result of a romance or a rape. But an illegitimate child was a scandal and the story tells there was a lot of crying because of the pregnancy. There was no father in Kaarlo’s life so he was raised as a Finnish boy with his older half-sisters. Kaarlo wrote a diary every day for 40 years but he never wrote directly anything about his origin. As a child he was bullied because his hair and eyes were so dark. He was called ”pitch-Kalle” (Kaarlo = Kalle).
Òåîðèÿ î ïðîèñõîæäåíèè Êààðëî ïîäòâåðæäàåòñÿ ÄÍÊ òåñòàìè åãî ïîòîìêîâ, ãàïëîãðóïïà êîòîðûõ îêàçàëàñü òèïè÷íî ñëàâÿíñêîé I2-P37. Äóìàþ ÷òî äëÿ íà÷àëà íàéòè ñïèñêè âîåííîñëóæàùèõ ÐÈ â Ôèíëÿíäèè â òî âðåìÿ . Ãäå èñêàòü? Ïðîøó ñîâåòîâ â òåìå. P.S. Ïîòîìêè ïðåäïîëàãàåìîåãî êàçàêà Ãðèãîðèÿ èç Ôèíëÿíäèè áóäóò ÷èòàòü ýòó òåìó. | | |
LeontiyaÄîëãîæèòåëü ôîðóìà ×àñòíûé ñïåöèàëèñòÏÎÌÎÙÜ Â ÀÐÕÈÂÀÕ, ÁÈÁËÈÎÒÅÊÀÕ ÏÅÒÅÐÁÓÐÃÀ Ñîîáùåíèé: 11003 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2012 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 9715 | Ââåðõ #6 ôåâðàëÿ 2017 23:20 babay íàïèñàë: [q] Òåîðèÿ î ïðîèñõîæäåíèè Êààðëî ïîäòâåðæäàåòñÿ ÄÍÊ òåñòàìè åãî ïîòîìêîâ, ãàïëîãðóïïà êîòîðûõ îêàçàëàñü òèïè÷íî ñëàâÿíñêîé I2-P37.[/q]
Ýòî ãëóáîêî ÍÅÍÀÓ×ÍÎ! | | |
LeontiyaÄîëãîæèòåëü ôîðóìà ×àñòíûé ñïåöèàëèñòÏÎÌÎÙÜ Â ÀÐÕÈÂÀÕ, ÁÈÁËÈÎÒÅÊÀÕ ÏÅÒÅÐÁÓÐÃÀ Ñîîáùåíèé: 11003 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2012 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 9715 | Ââåðõ #6 ôåâðàëÿ 2017 23:22 Áîþñü, ÷òî ïîèñê áåçíà䏿åí. Ñëèøêîì äàâíî, ñëèøêîì ìíîãî âàðèàíòîâ îòöîâñòâà. Õîòÿ áû çàïèñü î êðåùåíèè íàéäåíà?  êàêîì ïðèõîäå ñîâåðø¸í îáðÿä? | | |
| babay Ó÷àñòíèê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 51 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 32 | Ââåðõ #7 ôåâðàëÿ 2017 22:12 Leontiya íàïèñàë: [q] Ýòî ãëóáîêî ÍÅÍÀÓ×ÍÎ![/q]
Óòî÷íþ òîãäà ðåçóëüòàò: ñíèïû èñêîìîé ïåðñîíû I2a2 'Dinaric' ..L621>CTS10228>Y4460>Y3118 (I-Y3118). Áëèæàéøèå ñîâïàäåíöû â îñíîâíîé ìàññå Óêðàèíà, Ðîññèÿ, Ïîëüøà. Leontiya íàïèñàë: [q] Áîþñü, ÷òî ïîèñê áåçíà䏿åí. Ñëèøêîì äàâíî, ñëèøêîì ìíîãî âàðèàíòîâ îòöîâñòâà. Õîòÿ áû çàïèñü î êðåùåíèè íàéäåíà?  êàêîì ïðèõîäå ñîâåðø¸í îáðÿä?[/q]
Ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå ïîïûòàåìñÿ ïîìî÷ü. Âåäü èçâåñòíî ïðåäïîëàãàåìîå âîèíñêîå ïîäðàçäåëåíèå. Çàïèñü î ðîæäåíèè è ïåðåâîä âûëîæó ïîçæå. | | |
LeontiyaÄîëãîæèòåëü ôîðóìà ×àñòíûé ñïåöèàëèñòÏÎÌÎÙÜ Â ÀÐÕÈÂÀÕ, ÁÈÁËÈÎÒÅÊÀÕ ÏÅÒÅÐÁÓÐÃÀ Ñîîáùåíèé: 11003 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2012 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 9715 | Ââåðõ #7 ôåâðàëÿ 2017 22:24 babay íàïèñàë: [q] Çàïèñü î ðîæäåíèè [/q]
Ñàìîå èíòåðåñíîå â çàïèñè - ìåñòî è äàòà ðîæäåíèÿ. Ìåòðèêè áëèæàéøèõ ïðàâîñëàâíûõ õðàìîâ, à òàêæå ìåòðèêè ïîëêîâûõ õðàìîâ (â ÖÃÈÀ ÑÏá) ñòîÿâøèõ ïîáëèçîñòè âîèíñêèõ ÷àñòåé óæå àíàëèçèðîâàëèñü? Ñïèñêè ëè÷íîãî ñîñòàâà ìîãóò íå íàéòèñü, à â ìåòðèêàõ ìíîãèå âîåííîñëóæàùèå áóäóò óïîìèíàòüñÿ. Õîòü ÷òî-òî ... | | |
| babay Ó÷àñòíèê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 51 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 32 | Ââåðõ #8 ôåâðàëÿ 2017 21:53 8 ôåâðàëÿ 2017 21:57 Âîò çàïèñü â ÌÊ î ðîæäåíèè Êààðëî 27.12.1864ã : Ìåòðèêà î ðîæäåíèè Êàðëî27/12/1864 Onkkaala: ìåñòî ðîæäåíèÿ, íàçâàíèå äåðåâíè â Ïÿëêÿíå, Ôèíëÿíäèÿ Tiililä enkan: Tiililä (= ôàìèëèÿ è íàçâàíèå äîìà) âäîâà Maija Stina: (ôàìèëèÿ, èìÿ, ìàòåðè) Hartwigs: îò÷åñòâî, çà÷åðêíóòî è èçìåíåíî íà Leonard barn Karl: ðåáåíîê Êàðë Faddrar: êðåñòíûå Landbonde Johan Henriksson Hiissa: ÔåðìåðJohan Henriksson Hiissa med HRU [hustru] Eeva Kaisa Hartwigs: ñ æåíîé Eeva Kaisa Hartwigs (Hartwigs çà÷åðêíóòî è èçìåíåíî Leonard) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Èç ýòîãî ñëåäóåò ÷òî ÷òî çàïèñè îá îòöå íåò. Êðåñòíàÿ áûëà ñåñòðîé ìàòåðè Êàðëà. Ò.ê. ïî ñåìåéíîé ëåãåíäå áåðåìåííîñòü áûëà îñóæäàåìîé è âîîáùå íåèçâåñòíî ðåáåíîê áûë çà÷àò íàñèëüíî èëè ïî ëþáâè, òî î÷åíü ñîìíèòåëüíî ÷òî åñòü çàïèñè â ïðàâîñëàâíûõ õðàìàõ. Ïîýòîìó , èìõî, íóæíî èñêàòü ñïèñêè âîåííîñëóæàùèõ êâàðòèðîâàâøèõ â òî âðåìÿ ðÿäîì â Ïÿëêàíå. Ãäå òàêèå äîêóìåíòû ìîãóò õðàíèòüñÿ? | | |
Alex07Äîëãîæèòåëü ôîðóìà  Êóáàíü, ñòàíèöà Ãîñòàãàåâñêàÿ Ñîîáùåíèé: 338 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 845 | Ââåðõ #30 ìàðòà 2017 2:33 30 ìàðòà 2017 2:36 babay, Óëëà îáðàùàëàñü êî ìíå ñ ýòèì âîïðîñîì. Êàê ðàç ó ìåíÿ èìååòñÿ ñõîäñòâî ñ åå áðàòüÿìè ïî ÄÍÊ íà FTDNA ïî 67 ìàðêåðàì íà óðîâíå 7 ïîêîëåíèÿ, âîò òîëüêî êàêîé ïåðèîä ñ÷èòàåòñÿ ïîêîëåíèåì â ÄÍÊ-ãåíåàëîãèè ìíå òîëêîì íèêòî íå îòâåòèë. Ñàìîå èíòåðåñíîå ÷òî ìîé ïðàïðàäåä Êîëîòíå÷à Ëàðèîí Åâôèìîâ1837 ã.ð. èç êàçàêîâ è êàê ðàç â ïåðèîä 1860-õ ãîäîâ åùå íàõîäèëñÿ íà ñëóæáå, èìååòñÿ ïðèêàç ïî ÊÊ ¹20 8 Ïëàñòóíñêèé áàòàëüîí îò 04.06.1863 ãîäà î ïðîèçâîäñòâå â óðÿäíèêè. Ñâåäåíèé î òîì ÷òî êàêèå òî ïîäðàçäåëåíèÿ Êóáàíñêîãî êàçà÷üåãî âîéñêà íàõîäèëèñü â òîò ïåðèîä íà òåððèòîðèè Ôèíëÿíäèè ÿ íå íàøåë, êðîìå Ëåéá-ãâàðäèè 1-ÿ è 2-ÿ Êóáàíñêèå ñîòíè Èìïåðàòîðñêîãî êîíâîÿ íàõîäèëèñü â Ïåòåðáóðãå. à ïî÷òè âñ¸ ×åðíîìîðñêîå êàçà÷üå âîéñêî â ïåðèîä 1856−1864 ó÷àñòâîâàëî â âîåííûõ äåéñòâèÿõ íà Êàâêàçå. Íî ñàìîå èíòåðåñíîå ìíå êàæåòñÿ â ñõîäñòâå ôîòî ìîåãî ïðàäåäà 1881 ã.ð è Êàðëî 1864 ã.ð.. Ôîòî çäåñü https://yadi.sk/i/AjPOzrTB3GUEGC Íàøåë çäåñü - http://faithfulcossacks.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=1066 Èñòîðèÿ êàçà÷åñòâà » êàçàêè  ôÈÍËßÍÄÈÈ Â ïåðèîä Âîñòî÷íîé âîéíû (1853-1856 ãã.) â ñâÿçè ñ ðåçêî îáîñòðèâøåéñÿ îáñòàíîâêîé â Áàëòèéñêîì ðåãèîíå è àêòèâíûìè áîåâûìè äåéñòâèÿìè àíãëî-ôðàíöóçñêèõ ýñêàäð, êîëè÷åñòâî êàçà÷üèõ ïîëêîâ óâåëè÷èâàåòñÿ. Ê 28-ìó äîíñêîìó ïîëêó Íàñëåäûøåâà, íåñøåãî ñëóæáó ñ 1851 ã. îò Âûáîðãà äî Òîðíèî (ò.å. íà ôðîíòå ïðèáëèçèòåëüíî â 800-1000 êì), äîáàâëÿåòñÿ 64-é äîíñêîé ïîëê Ñêàñèðñêîâà, (çàíèìàåò ã. Ëîâèñà), è 63-é (ñ 1858 ã. – 13-é) äîíñêîé ïîëê, êîòîðûé è îñòàåòñÿ â Ôèíëÿíäèè ïîñëå îêîí÷àíèÿ âîéíû.  1866-1869 ãã. çäåñü êâàðòèðóåò 53-é äîíñêîé ïîëê, â 1869-1872 ãã. – 8-é äîíñêîé ïîëê, â 1873-1875 ãã. – 24-é äîíñêîé ïîëê, 1876-1882 ãã. – 19-é äîíñêîé ïîëê. Äî íà÷àëà XX ñòîëåòèÿ ÷èñëåííîñòü êàçàêîâ ñîêðàùàåòñÿ è â Ôèíëÿíäèè ñòîèò ëèøü îäíà äîíñêàÿ ñîòíÿ â Õÿìåíëèííà. --- Èùó ñâåäåíèÿ ïî Êîëîòíå÷à è Òèì÷åíêî Íèêîí. Ñûíîâüÿ Òèì÷åíêî Íèêîíà Èâàí è Íèêîëàé, îáà +-1824 ã.ð ïåðåñåëèëèñü íà Êóáàíü â ñòàíèöó Âûøåñòåáëèåâñêóþ â 1840-50-å ãîäû. | | |
| aun Ó÷àñòíèê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 64 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2013 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 556 | Óâàæàåìûå çíàòîêè èñòîðèè!Ïîìîãèòå,ïîæàëóéñòà,ðàçîáðàòüñÿ â çàïóòàííîé ñèòóàöèè.
Ìîé ïðàïðàäåä Áîáðîâñêèé Èëëàðèîí Ñåìåíîâè÷ (ðîäèëñÿ â ñ.Îñòàíèíî Êóðñêîé îáëàñòè.) ñëóæèë ïðàïîðùèêîì èëè ïîäïîðó÷èêîì.Èçâåñòèå î åãî ñìåðòè ïðèøëî,êîãäà ñòàðøåìó ñûíó Ïåòðó áûëî 8 ëåò (ñîîòâåòñòâåííî ýòî ãäå-òî 1911-1912ãã.).Áàáóøêà ãîâîðèò, ÷òî âîåâàëè ñ ôèííàìè.Çàñòðåëåí íà äóýëè. Î êàêîé âîéíå ìîæåò èäòè ðå÷ü, åñëè Ïåðâàÿ ìèðîâàÿ åùå íå íà÷àëàñü?Ðóññêî-ôèíñêàÿ âîîáùå â 1939 ãîäó. Åãî äåòè: 1. Áîáðîâñêèé Ïåòð Èëëàðèîíîâè÷ 1904ã.ð. 2. Áîáðîâñêèé Ìèõàèë Èëëàðèîíîâè÷ 21.11.1906 3. Áîáðîâñêàÿ Àííà Èëëàðèîíîâíà 1908ã.ð. 4. Áîáðîâñêèé Ïðîêîôèé Èëëàðèîíîâè÷ 1910ã.ð. Óìåð â âîçðàñòå 2-ëåò.
--- Èùó ñâåäåíèÿ î Áîáðîâñêèõ, Ôàðàôîíîâûõ-ñåëî Îñòàíèíî, Êàìàðäèí,Ïåðåâåðçåâ-ñåëî Ïóçà÷è Êóðñêîé ãóáåðíèè, Ãðåöîâ, Åñèïîâ-äåðåâíÿ Äîðîæíÿ Ñòàðîîñêîëüñêèé Óåçä , Óøàêîâ, Ïðàñîëîâ-Ëåáåäè Ñòàðîîñêîëüñêèé Óåçä, Àëòóõîâ, Êóðèöêèé, Ìàìàåâ, Ïàøêîâ, Íèêóëèí, Àðòåìüå | | |
ArcobalenoÄîëãîæèòåëü ôîðóìà  Ïñêîâ Ñîîáùåíèé: 2781 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2010 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 4600 | Ââåðõ #13 èþëÿ 2017 15:11 13 èþëÿ 2017 16:58 aun íàïèñàë: [q] Áàáóøêà ãîâîðèò, ÷òî âîåâàëè ñ ôèííàìè.[/q]
Ïðàêòèêà ïîêàçûâàåò, ÷òî äàëåêî íå âñåì ñåìåéíûì ëåãåíäàì ìîæíî âåðèòü. È êàê ìîãëè âîåâàòü ñ ôèííàìè, åñëè Ôèíëÿíäèÿ â ýòîò ïåðèîä âîîáùå áûëà ÷àñòüþ Ðîññèéñêîé èìïåðèè? Âîçìîæíî, Âàø ïðàïðàäåä ïðîñòî ïðîõîäèë âîåííóþ ñëóæáó íà òåððèòîðèè Ôèíëÿíäèè è äåéñòâèòåëüíî ïîãèá íà äóýëè. Èùèòå äîêóìåíòû, òîëüêî îíè ðàññêàæóò ïðàâäó... --- ÎÑÒÀÔÜÅÂÛ, ÄÅÍÈÑÅÍÊÎ - Êóáàíü
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