Ðîññèéñêàÿ Èìïåðàòîðñêàÿ àðìèÿ è ôëîò - 2013 / 2019
LeontiyaÄîëãîæèòåëü ôîðóìà ×àñòíûé ñïåöèàëèñòÏÎÌÎÙÜ Â ÀÐÕÈÂÀÕ, ÁÈÁËÈÎÒÅÊÀÕ ÏÅÒÅÐÁÓÐÃÀ Ñîîáùåíèé: 10986 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2012 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 9759 | Ââåðõ #16 àâãóñòà 2013 22:54 Grozniy
Ïîñìîòðèòå ïå÷àòíûå ÏÐÈÊÀÇÀÍÈß (ÍÅ ÏÐÈÊÀÇÛ!!!) ïî îêðóãó êâàðòèðîâàíèÿ ÷àñòè çà ýòîò ïåðèîä. Ïåðåìåùåíèÿ ìåäèöèíñêèõ ÷èíîâ, âêëþ÷àÿ íèæíèõ, îòðàæàëèñü èìåííî òàì | | |
ÕâîðîñòåíêîÏî÷åòíûé ó÷àñòíèê  Ìîñêîâñêàÿ îáë. Ñîîáùåíèé: 137 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2013 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 57 | Ââåðõ #19 àâãóñòà 2013 15:10 Èç Ôèíëÿíäèè ïðèñëàëè ôîòîãðàôèþ âîçìîæíîãî ðîäñòâåííèêà ìîèõ ïðåäêîâ - Íèêîëàÿ Àãàôîíîâè÷à Ñëåïóøîâà. Ïðåäïîëîæèòåëüíî îí ðîäèëñÿ â 1843 ã. Âðåìÿ, êîãäà îí áûë ñôîòîãðàôèðîâàí, íåèçâåñòíî. Êòî-íèáóäü çíàåò, ÷òî ýòî çà ôîðìà?
 | | |
VCÌîäåðàòîð ðàçäåëà  Ñîîáùåíèé: 8586 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 4551 | Ââåðõ #19 àâãóñòà 2013 15:49 Õâîðîñòåíêî íàïèñàë: [q] Èç Ôèíëÿíäèè ïðèñëàëè ôîòîãðàôèþ âîçìîæíîãî ðîäñòâåííèêà ìîèõ ïðåäêîâ - Íèêîëàÿ Àãàôîíîâè÷à Ñëåïóøîâà. Ïðåäïîëîæèòåëüíî îí ðîäèëñÿ â 1843 ã. Âðåìÿ, êîãäà îí áûë ñôîòîãðàôèðîâàí, íåèçâåñòíî. Êòî-íèáóäü çíàåò, ÷òî ýòî çà ôîðìà? [/q]
Âû íå ìîãëè áû âûñòàâèòü ôîòîãðàôèþ ïîëíîñòüþ? Ïî îäíîìó ôðàãìåíòó ñëîæíî ñäåëàòü êàêèå-ëèáî âûâîäû. Âäîáàâîê ïîãîí îáðåçàí è åñëè òàì åñòü øèôðîâêà, òî å¸ íå ïðî÷åñòü. Ïîêà ìîæíî ñêàçàòü òîëüêî, ÷òî èçîáðàæåí ôåëüäôåáåëü èëè ñòàðøèé óíòåð-îôèöåð (îäíà øèðîêàÿ íàøèâêà íà ïîãîíå èëè 3 óçêèå, ñëèâøèåñÿ íà ñíèìêå). | | |
Êàðãîïîëüñêèé ÄðàãóíÄîëãîæèòåëü ôîðóìà  Ñîîáùåíèé: 3407 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2013 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 14302 | Ââåðõ #19 àâãóñòà 2013 16:06 VC Ìýòð, ñíèìîê âäîáàâîê çåðêàëüíûé, ïîëóêàôòàí( ìóíäèð) îáð.1855 ã. çàñòåãíóò íà ëåâóþ ñòîðîíó. ÕâîðîñòåíêîÑîëèäàðåí ñ êîëëåãîé, áåç ïîëíîðàçìåðíîãî ñíèìêà òî÷íàÿ àòðèáóòàöèÿ çàòðóäíåíà, ÿñíî îäíî ôîòî äî 1872 ã. --- "Êòî íå çíàåò èñòèíû î ñâîåì ïðîøëîì, òîò íåäîñòîèí áóäóùåãî." Èñòîðèÿ -- çàíÿòèå óâëåêàòåëüíîå, íî èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî îòâåòñòâåííîå. Èñòîðèê äîëæåí áûòü ìàòåðèàëüíî íåçàâèñèìûì èëè ôàíàòèêîì, êîòîðûé ïðåäïî÷èòàåò æèòü â íèùåòå, íî ïèñàòü òî, ÷òî îí äåéñòâèòåëüíî äóìàåò. | | |
ÕâîðîñòåíêîÏî÷åòíûé ó÷àñòíèê  Ìîñêîâñêàÿ îáë. Ñîîáùåíèé: 137 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2013 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 57 | Ââåðõ #19 àâãóñòà 2013 19:05 VC íàïèñàë: [q] Âû íå ìîãëè áû âûñòàâèòü ôîòîãðàôèþ ïîëíîñòüþ? Ïî îäíîìó ôðàãìåíòó ñëîæíî ñäåëàòü êàêèå-ëèáî âûâîäû. Âäîáàâîê ïîãîí îáðåçàí è åñëè òàì åñòü øèôðîâêà, òî å¸ íå ïðî÷åñòü.[/q]
Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, ôîòîãðàôèþ ìíå ïðèñëàë â ýòîì âèäå ïðàïðàâíóê ýòîãî Ñëåïóøîâà, ñîâñåì íå âëàäåþùèé ðóññêèì ÿçûêîì. Íàñêîëüêî ÿ ïîíÿë, â âîåííîé ôîðìå ýòà ôîòîãðàôèÿ ïðàïðàäåäà ó íåãî îäíà. Ïîïðîáóþ ñïðîñèòü ó íåãî, íåò ëè áîëåå øèðîêîôîðìàòíîé ôîòîãðàôèè, Íî ýòî âñ¸ æå âîåííàÿ ôîðìà? Ñòðîåâîé ôåäôåáåëü èëè êàêîé-íèáóäü òåëåãðàôèñò? | | |
VCÌîäåðàòîð ðàçäåëà  Ñîîáùåíèé: 8586 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 4551 | Ââåðõ #19 àâãóñòà 2013 19:27 19 àâãóñòà 2013 19:30 Õâîðîñòåíêî íàïèñàë: [q] Íî ýòî âñ¸ æå âîåííàÿ ôîðìà? Ñòðîåâîé ôåäôåáåëü èëè êàêîé-íèáóäü òåëåãðàôèñò?[/q]
Äà, âîåííàÿ. Êàê óæå îòìåòèë êîëëåãà, ýòî äâóáîðòíûé ìóíäèð, çàìåíåííûé â 1872-ì íà îäíîáîðòíûé. Ñ äîáàâêîé ïàðû ëåò íà äîíàøèâàíèå ñòàðûõ ìîæíî ïðåäïîëîæèòü, ÷òî ôîòîãðàôèÿ ñäåëàíà äî ýòîãî ñðîêà. Ó íåñòðîåâûõ ñòàðøåãî ðàçðÿäà ãàëóí ïðèøèâàëñÿ ïî íèæíåìó êðàþ âîðîòíèêà. Òàê ÷òî èçîáðàæåí ñòðîåâîé. Ïî÷åìó Âû ñäåëàëè ïðåäïîëîæåíèå î òåëåãðàôèñòå? Åñòü êàêèå-òî äîïîëíèòåëüíûå ñâåäåíèÿ? Öâåò ãàëóíà è ïóãîâèö âåðîÿòíî ñåðåáðÿíûé, ÷òî õàðàêòåðíî äëÿ èíæåíåðíûõ ÷àñòåé, íî íà ôîòîãðàôèÿõ 19-ãî âåêà î÷åíü ëåãêî îøèáèòüñÿ ñ "ðàñøèôðîâêîé" öâåòîâ. Õâîðîñòåíêî íàïèñàë: [q] Ïîïðîáóþ ñïðîñèòü ó íåãî, íåò ëè áîëåå øèðîêîôîðìàòíîé ôîòîãðàôèè[/q]
Çàîäíî ïîïðîáóéòå óçíàòü ãäå ñäåëàíà ôîòîãðàôèÿ. Âîçìîæíî ãîðîä óêàçàí íà áëàíêå (ïàñïàðòó). | | |
ÕâîðîñòåíêîÏî÷åòíûé ó÷àñòíèê  Ìîñêîâñêàÿ îáë. Ñîîáùåíèé: 137 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2013 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 57 | Ââåðõ #19 àâãóñòà 2013 21:40 Êàðãîïîëüñêèé Äðàãóí íàïèñàë: [q] áåç ïîëíîðàçìåðíîãî ñíèìêà òî÷íàÿ àòðèáóòàöèÿ çàòðóäíåíà, ÿñíî îäíî ôîòî äî 1872 ã. [/q]
Ïðàâíóê Íèêîëàÿ Ñëåïóøîâà Joni Westerback îïåðàòèâíî ïðèñëàë ïîëíîôîðìàòíîå ôîòî. Òåïåðü VC è Êàðãîïîëüñêèé Äðàãóí âû ïîñòàâèòå îêîí÷àòåëüíûé âåðäèêò.
 | | |
| westis Íîâè÷îê
Vaasa, Finland Ñîîáùåíèé: 1 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2013 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 4 | Ââåðõ #19 àâãóñòà 2013 22:46 Èçâèíèòå çà ìîé ïëîõîé ðóññêèé ÿçûê. ß çíàþ òîëüêî íåêîòîðûå îñíîâû, íî ÿ äîëæåí èñïîëüçîâàòü Google Translate, ÷òîáû ñäåëàòü åãî ïðîùå.
Íèêîëàé îïèñàííûé âûøå, ÿâëÿåòñÿ äåä ìîåé áàáóøêè.
Ó íàñ íåò òî÷íîé èíôîðìàöèè, íî îí áûë ëèáî â èìïåðàòîðñêîé ãâàðäèè (Ëåéá-ãâàðäèÿ) â Õåëüñèíêè èëè âîåííûõ èç Âåëèêîãî êíÿæåñòâà Ôèíëÿíäñêîãî. ß íàäåþñü, ÷òî êàðòèíà Õâîðîñòåíêî îòïðàâëåíî ïîìîæåò óçíàòü áîëüøå.
Ìû äóìàåì, îí èçíà÷àëüíî ïðèøëè â Ôèíëÿíäèþ èç Øëèññåëüáóðã.
Åñëè ó âàñ åñòü âîïðîñû, ÿ ìîãó ïîïðîáîâàòü îòâåòèòü.
Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Joni
----
Original untranslated text:
Sorry for my bad russian. I know only some basics but i have to use google translate to make it easier.
Nikolai described above is the grandfather of my grandmother.
We have no exact information but he was either in the imperial guard (Ëåéá-ãâàðäèÿ) in Helsinki or the military of the grand duchy of Finland. I hope the picture Õâîðîñòåíêî sent will help finding out more.
We think he originally came to Finland from Slisselburg.
If you have more questions i can try to answer.
Best regards, Joni --- westis | | |
VCÌîäåðàòîð ðàçäåëà  Ñîîáùåíèé: 8586 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 4551 | Ââåðõ #20 àâãóñòà 2013 0:05 20 àâãóñòà 2013 8:52 westis íàïèñàë: [q] Nikolai described above is the grandfather of my grandmother. [/q]
Hi Joni, Thank you for the photo. The initial fragment didn’t have enough info. The person in the picture is a non-commissioned officer who has served in an army telegraph unit. It’s not clear whether there is one wide stripe or 3 narrow ones on his shoulder board so his rank is either a “feldfebel” or a senior “unter-officer”. Currently, depending on a country, it will probably correspond to a rank of a master-sergeant or a senior sergeant. The army branch is indicated by the telegraph insignia on his shoulder boards. In addition buttons and the collar’s trim are silver (gold, copper or bronze would look darker on an old b/w photo) which also suggests engineering troops that included telegraph detachments. The above mentioned insignia was introduced in 1865. The double breasted coat shown in the picture was replaced by a single breasted in 1872. Add couple more years for the uniform replacement around the country and it will give you the estimated period when this picture was taken - probably between 1865 and 1874. I will not be able to name a specific unit. It’s not a life-guard for sure. These guys had different uniform at that time. Most probably it’s a telegraph detachment of some fortress. Here is an article in Russian that describes the insignia of communication units. It’s written by our colleague ksologub so he may add some comments if I missed anything. http://vedomstva-uniforma.ru/mundir5/telegraph/index.htmlBest regards, Vladimir P.S. An additional question. Do you by any chance know where this picture was taken? Sometimes a name of a photographer and a city are listed on the back of the photo. Update: Joni, could you please take another look at the photo and tell us whether you see the same insignia (lightnings) on uniform's buttons. It seems to me that something is visible there but the image resolution is too low. If you have a scanner nearby then scan a section of the image with a resolution of 1200 dpi. I have another theory that I would like to verify. | | |
VCÌîäåðàòîð ðàçäåëà  Ñîîáùåíèé: 8586 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 4551 | Ââåðõ #20 àâãóñòà 2013 0:18 Õâîðîñòåíêî íàïèñàë: [q] Êàðãîïîëüñêèé Äðàãóí íàïèñàë: [q] áåç ïîëíîðàçìåðíîãî ñíèìêà òî÷íàÿ àòðèáóòàöèÿ çàòðóäíåíà, ÿñíî îäíî ôîòî äî 1872 ã. [/q]
Ïðàâíóê Íèêîëàÿ Ñëåïóøîâà Joni Westerback îïåðàòèâíî ïðèñëàë ïîëíîôîðìàòíîå ôîòî. Òåïåðü VC è Êàðãîïîëüñêèé Äðàãóí âû ïîñòàâèòå îêîí÷àòåëüíûé âåðäèêò.[/q]
Ñïàñèáî. Âêðàòöå òî, ÷òî âûøå íàïèñàë íà àíãëèéñêîì. Íà ôîòîãðàôèè ôåëüäôåáåëü èëè ñòàðøèé óíòåð-îôèöåð, ñëóæèâøèé â êàêîé-òî òåëåãðàôíîé ÷àñòè. Òåëåãðàôíûé ñïåöçíàê íà ïîãîíàõ áûë âïåðâûå ââåäåí â 1865-ì, òàê ÷òî ôîòîãðàôèÿ ñäåëàíà íå ðàíåå ýòîãî ãîäà. Íàøèâêè è ìóíäèð ìû óæå îáñóäèëè âûøå. Òî÷íîå ìåñòî ñëóæáû îïðåäåëèòü íå áåðóñü. Âîçìîæíî âîåííûé òåëåãðàô êàêîé-òî êðåïîñòè. Ïðèëîæèë ññûëêó íà ñòàòüþ óâ. ksologubà. Íàäåþñü îí ÷òî-íèáóäü äîáàâèò åñëè ÿ ÷òî-òî óïóñòèë. | | |
|