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Looking For A Marriage Record

Looking for a marriage record in Russian Empire

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OlgaKob

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"Речи и отчет, читаемые на торжественном собрании Московского императорского университета 12 января 1886 года"
The rank of ''actual students''
the students of History and linguistics department
page 66
Ignaty Engel, it says that he finished Mogilev gymnasium.
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OlgaKob

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There's Ignaty's service list at RGIA (Russian state historical archives)
https://fgurgia.ru/object/7236033

https://fgurgia.ru/object/7193393

He was born on the 17th of October, 1857
OlgaKob

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Here's the memorial book of Kiev governorate for 1903
https://viewer.rusneb.ru/ru/00...heme=white

Ignaty Evgenyevich is mentioned as a teacher of the 3rd Kiev male gynmasium.
it says he had the rabk of collegiate councillor (kollezhskiy sovetnik), which was the 6th class.
So, around 1899-1900 he received the rank of nadvorniy sovetnik, and between 1900 and 1903 he was elevated to kollezhskiy sovetnik, class 6th.
And taught in Kiev.
So, now, it's definate, that by 1900 he had the personal nobility.

And it also says his address - Bolshaya Kudryavskaya, 31 (in Kiev)
................................................
The memorial book of 1901, Kiev governorate
The 3rd Kiev male gymnasium

[q]
teacher of the Russian language, literature and logics, collegiate coincillor, I.E. Engel, Kadetsky avenue (prospekt). 30
[/q]


https://viewer.rusneb.ru/ru/00...heme=white

The 1904 memorial book:
https://viewer.rusneb.ru/ru/00...heme=white

he's address was Georgyevskaya ploschad, 1

He's no longer mentioned at Kiev 3rd gymnasium in 1905
OlgaKob

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ЦГА Москвы, фонд №418, опись №294 дело 876
О принятии в число студентов Энгеля Игнатия, 26 июля 1880 - 17 октября 1885
OlgaKob

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Here Engel's mentioned in Lithuanian eparchy digest (Vilno)

[q]
Kovno. The all-Russian celebration of the 900th anniversary of the baptism of Rus...At 5 p.m. in the hall of the city duma there took place a formal assembly where in accordance with the prepared program, there occured the following... 4) The teacher of the male classic gymnasium, Mr Engel suggested to the assembly a thorough narration on the life and accomplishments of St Prince Vladimir.
[/q]


FuranNietchaieff

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wow, so much information was found on him!
If I summarize correctly:
Ignatiy was born on October 18, 1857. No place stated but possibly Belarus. Is the file available at the RGIA not digitized? I can't view the site at the moment.
He was at school in Mogilev before 1885.
In 1885, he was part of the Order of Saint-Stanislas of the 3rd grade as a cavalryman.
Between 1885 and 1899 he was admitted as a student to Moscow University.
In 1885 he married Aleksandra.
Between 1886 and 1899 he went to Kaunas where he had two children and where he worked as a Russian and Latin teacher.
In 1898 he received the order of St Anne. An address is indicated: Garnizonnaya Street. Is it in Lithuania or in Russia (Moscow?)?
From 1900 to around 1905 he was in Kiev, Ukraine as a professor. He achieved personal nobility too.
2 addresses were mentioned:
Bolshaya Kudryavskaya and Georgievskaya ploshchad. I couldn't locate in Kiev

If I'm not mistaken he would have done his military service between 1875 (18 years old) and 1885? Grigory and Ignatiy probably knew each other at that time.
Concerning Kiev, it makes me think of Mikhail Netchaieff was an artist in Kiev between probably 1919-1922 or 1914-1916. Grigory and Maria had probably settled there too.

I also noted for Mikhail Pavlovitch Kossov. Perhaps a nephew of Nedzia Kossova.
I also noted the non-digitized found concerning Ignatiy's school files

Besides, I don't know if I had asked, but what do you think of the first name "Nedzia"? Is it a real Russian name or do you think it should be Nadezhda/Надежда? The probability that Maria made a mistake in indicating her mother's first name in French is quite high I think.
OlgaKob

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FuranNietchaieff написал:
[q]
Ignatiy was born on October 18, 1857. No place stated but possibly Belarus. Is the file available at the RGIA not digitized? I can't view the site at the moment.
He was at school in Mogilev before 1885.
[/q]


Since he went to Mogilev gymnasium, his family should have very likely resided in Mogilev.


FuranNietchaieff написал:
[q]
In 1885, he was part of the Order of Saint-Stanislas of the 3rd grade as a cavalryman.
[/q]


No! He wasn't a cavalryman!!!! Cavalry is a type of military unit!
He didn't serve in the military!
He was a ''cavalier'' of two orders (awards!!!) of st. Stafan and st. Anna.
These were govermental wards, not chivalric kinights orders like the Order of Malta))))
FuranNietchaieff

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[q]
No! He wasn't a cavalryman!!!! Cavalry is a type of military unit!
He didn't serve in the military!
He was a ''cavalier'' of two orders (awards!!!) of st. Stafan and st. Anna.
These were govermental wards, not chivalric kinights orders like the Order of Malta))))
[/q]


Oh sorry, I didn't understand the nuance.
OlgaKob

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FuranNietchaieff написал:
[q]
. An address is indicated: Garnizonnaya Street. Is it in Lithuania or in Russia (Moscow?)?
[/q]


I don't know. Since he worked in Kovno then, it should be Kaunass.
I've googled, there was a noble family named Dobrovolsky in Kovno governorate.
I've not found a street with this name, yet there was a Roman-Catholic church built between 1891-95.
This one. It was also called "Kaunass garrison cathidral""
So maybe the street was near it.

There's no such a street in Moscow.


FuranNietchaieff написал:
[q]
From 1900 to around 1905 he was in Kiev, Ukraine as a professor. He achieved personal nobility too.
[/q]


No, he wasn't a professor! He was a high school teacher.
There were three types of high schools in Russia: real schools (realnye uchilischa; for ordinary people, focused on technical studies), gymnasiums (originally for nobility, focused on the classics, humanities), and cadet corps (military schools).
Professors taught at universities.

He received the rank of nadvorny sovetnik (court councillor), a 7th class, and then kollezhsky sovetnik (collegiate councillor), a 6th class of the table of ranks. These were considered quite high in the bureaucratic hyararchy. Yet, of course, below the top governmental officials niche.
The top governmental ranks started with the class 4 of the table of ranks, which is the actual state councillor (deystvitelny statsky sovetnik). These were the ministerial ranks.
Since 1845 the ranks he received gave the right for personall nobility, yet there's no evidence so far, that he actually received the certain patent for it.
as for all these patents, it must be in RGIA, the funds of the Senate's Heraldry (Герольдия Правительствующего Сената), because it was them who granted patents on titles and ranks.

As fo yet. the title of a personal nobleman was to pass to his wife, but not to his children. They had the right for the hereditary honored citizenship (potomstveniy pochetny grazhdanin).
By 1890s these titles no longer had significant value, were more of honorifics.
However, they were still much preferred when it came to state service.




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OlgaKob

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FuranNietchaieff написал:
[q]
If I'm not mistaken he would have done his military service between 1875 (18 years old) and 1885?
[/q]


Since 1874 the military service in Russia was across all social estates and compulsory. But, the starting age was 21. So, he schould have been drafted not until 1878. Then he was a student. I don't know. He may have had some exemption from the duty or be put in reserve. People with higher education also were quilified for shortened period of service, from what I know. But this is not my expertise, so I can't tell for sure.


FuranNietchaieff написал:
[q]
Besides, I don't know if I had asked, but what do you think of the first name "Nedzia"? Is it a real Russian name or do you think it should be Nadezhda/Надежда? The probability that Maria made a mistake in indicating her mother's first name in French is quite high I think.
[/q]


There's no such a name in Russian as ''Nedzia''. Must be Nadezhda. However, there could also be a shortened family nickname for her.


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