Ðàñøèôðîâàí ãåíîì «ëåäÿíîãî ÷åëîâåêà» Îòöè - ñòàðåéøåé ìóìèè
Âåíà, 26 îêòÿáðÿ. Ðàñøèôðîâàí ãåíîì Îòöè – «ëåäÿíîãî ÷åëîâåêà» âîçðàñòîì 5300 ëåò, îáíàðóæåííîãî â Àëüïàõ îêîëî äâàäöàòè ëåò íàçàä è ñòàâøåãî îäíîé èç ñàìûõ ãðîìêèõ àðõåîëîãè÷åñêèõ íàõîäîê òûñÿ÷åëåòèÿ.
Ó÷åíûå ðàñøèôðîâàëè åãî ãåíîì è ïðåäñòàâèëè îò÷åò
nmash Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 6479 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2007 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 3563 | Íàâåðõ ##
27 îêòÿáðÿ 2011 19:31 Ïîëíîñòüþ èçó÷åí ÿäåðíûé ãåíîì ìóæ÷èíû, ïîãèáøåãî â Àëüïàõ 5 300 ëåò íàçàä Ãåíîì àëüïèéñêîé ìóìèè ðàñøèôðîâàí Íà ïðîøåäøåé 20-22 îêòÿáðÿ íàó÷íîé êîíôåðåíöèè â þæíîòèðîëüñêîì ãîðîäå Áîëüçàíî (Èòàëèÿ) ó÷åíûå ïîäâåëè ïðîìåæóòî÷íûå èòîãè ìíîãîëåòíèõ èññëåäîâàíèé íàèáîëåå ñîõðàíèâøåéñÿ äðåâíåé ìóìèè ÷åëîâåêà, êîòîðàÿ áûëà îáíàðóæåíà íåìåöêèìè òóðèñòàìè â Òèðîëüñêèõ Àëüïàõ â 1991 ãîäó. Âîçðàñò âìîðîæåííîé â ëåä ìóìèè ìóæ÷èíû, ïðîçâàííîé Ýòöè - â ÷åñòü òèðîëüñêîé äîëèíû Ýòöòàëü - ñîñòàâëÿåò îêîëî 5000 ëåò. Ó÷åíûå ïðèøëè ê ñîãëàñèþ â âîïðîñàõ, êàñàþùèõñÿ ñìåðòè ýòîãî ÷åëîâåêà, ñîîáùàåò åâðîïåéñêîå àãåíòñòâî íàó÷íûõ íîâîñòåé AlphaGalileo âî âòîðíèê. Ìåíþ äðåâíåãî ÷åëîâåêà áûëî òðàäèöèîííûì Èññëåäîâàíèÿ ñîäåðæèìîãî æåëóäêà ìóìèè ïîêàçàëè, ÷òî ýòî áûëà æèðíàÿ ïèùà - ìÿñî ãîðíîãî êîçëà - êîòîðóþ ÷åëîâåê ïðèíÿë çà 20-120 ìèíóò äî ñìåðòè. Ýòöè çàêóñûâàë ñàëàòîì, à íà äåñåðò îòâåäàë ôðóêòîâ: îáíàðóæåíû ñëåäû çåðíîâûõ êóëüòóð, ëèñòüåâ è ÿáëîê. ßáëîêè ñåé÷àñ ÿâëÿþòñÿ òðàäèöèîííîé þæíîòèðîëüñêîé ïëîäîâîé êóëüòóðîé, äåðåâåíñêèå æèòåëè äåëàþò èõ çàïàñû íà âñþ çèìó. Óìåð îí âåñíîé, à íå îñåíüþ, êàê ñ÷èòàëè ðàíüøå, î ÷åì ñâèäåòåëüñòâóþò íîâûå äàííûå ïàëèíîëîãèè. ×òî òèðîëüñêèé ÷åëîâåê äåëàë â Ýòöòàëå, íà âûñîòå 3200 ìåòðîâ - íå ïîíÿòíî. Ó÷åíûå îïðîâåðãëè òåîðèþ, ÷òî Ýòöè áûë ïàñòóõîì, óñòàíîâèâ, ÷òî â ìåäíî-êàìåííûé âåê, êîãäà æèë ýòîò ÷åëîâåê, îòãîííîãî æèâîòíîâîäñòâà â Òèðîëå åùå íå áûëî. Çèíê è åãî êîìàíäà èçó÷àþò ÄÍÊ, âûäåëåííóþ èç ôðàãìåíòà áåäðåííîé êîñòè Ýòöè. Óæå óäàëîñü âîññòàíîâèòü ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòü îêîëî 90 ïðîöåíòîâ ÄÍÊ ëåäÿíîãî ÷åëîâåêà - äî 3 ìëðä íóêëåîòèäíûõ ïàð ãåíîìà, ñîîáùàåò Nature. Äåëàåòñÿ ýòî äëÿ èçó÷åíèÿ àðòðîñêëåðîçà, êîòîðûì áîëåë Ýòöè, è äëÿ óñòàíîâëåíèÿ åãî ãåíåàëîãèè. Äàííûå ãåíåòè÷åñêîãî àíàëèçà ïîçâîëÿþò çàêëþ÷èòü, ÷òî ó íåãî áûëè òåìíûå âîëîñû è êàðèå ãëàçà. Åãî ÄÍÊ îáëàäàëà ìóòàöèÿìè, êîòîðûå ñâîéñòâåííû ìíîãèì æèòåëÿì þæíîé Åâðîïû. Ó÷åíûå ñîáèðàþòñÿ ïðîâåðèòü, íàñêîëüêî áëèçîê Ýòöè â ãåíåòè÷åñêîì ïëàíå ñîâðåìåííûì è äðåâíèì òèðîëüöàì. Äëÿ ýòîãî èññëåäóþòñÿ îñòàíêè äðóãèõ æèòåëåé Öåíòðàëüíîé Åâðîïû. Ïî îäíîé èç âåðñèé, ïðåäêè Ýòöè ìîãëè ïðèéòè â Òèðîëü èç Áëèæíåãî Âîñòîêà èëè æå ÿâëÿëèñü êîðåííûì íàñåëåíèåì. Ýòöè ÿâëÿåòñÿ íàèáîëåå èçó÷åííîé ìóìèåé â ìèðå. Èññëåäîâàíèÿ âåäóòñÿ ãëàâíûì îáðàçîì ñòîëèöå Þæíîãî Òèðîëÿ è â Ìþíõåíå, Áàâàðèÿ (Ãåðìàíèÿ). Ñåêâåíèðîâàí ÿäåðíûé ãåíîì Ýöè 2008 ãîäó áûë ïîëíîñòüþ ñåêâåíèðîâàí ìèòîõîíäðèàëüíûé ãåíîì Ýöè. Îí ïîêàçàë, ÷òî ïî ìàòåðèíñêîé ëèíèè «ëåäÿíîé ÷åëîâåê» ÿâëÿåòñÿ ðîäñòâåííèêîì íåêîòîðûõ ñîâðåìåííûõ æèòåëåé Öåíòðàëüíîé Åâðîïû.  òî æå âðåìÿ îáíàðóæåíû ìóòàöèè, ïîêà íå âûÿâëåííûå â íûíåøíèõ ïîïóëÿöèÿõ. Ñåêâåíèðîâàíèåì ÿäåðíîãî ãåíîìà çàíèìàëàñü ãðóïïà ïîä ðóêîâîäñòâîì Àëüáåðòà Öèíêà èç Èíñòèòóòà ìóìèé è Ëåäÿíîãî ÷åëîâåêà (Èòàëèÿ). Ó÷¸íûå âûäåëèëè òðè ìèëëèàðäà ïàð îñíîâàíèé — áîëåå 90% ãåíîìà Ýöè. Ýòî ïîìîæåò âûÿñíèòü, äåéñòâèòåëüíî ëè ãîñòü èç ïðîøëîãî áûë ïîòîìêîì êîðåííûõ åâðîïåéöåâ èëè æå åãî äåäû ïðèøëè â Àëüïû èç Ìàëîé Àçèè. Äàáû ïðîÿñíèòü âîïðîñ, ñïåöèàëèñòû îäíîâðåìåííî ðàçáèðàþòñÿ ñ ãåíàìè äðóãèõ íåîëèòè÷åñêèõ ñêåëåòîâ. Óæå èçâåñòíî, ÷òî ó Ýöè îòñóòñòâîâàëà ìóòàöèÿ, íåîáõîäèìàÿ äëÿ ðàñùåïëåíèÿ ëàêòîçû âî âçðîñëîì ñîñòîÿíèè: òèïè÷íûé ïðèçíàê ñòàðûõ îáèòàòåëåé Åâðîïû, íå çàíèìàâøèõñÿ ñêîòîâîäñòâîì. Ê òîìó æå îí îáëàäàë ò¸ìíûìè âîëîñàìè è êàðèìè ãëàçàìè. Êðîìå òîãî, èññëåäîâàòåëè ïðîàíàëèçèðîâàëè ÄÍÊ, ñîõðàíèâøèåñÿ â æåëóäêå Ýöè. Âðîäå áû åñòü íàì¸ê íà òî, ÷òî îí áûë çàðàæ¸í áàêòåðèåé Borrelia burgdorferi, âûçûâàþùåé áîëåçíü Ëàéìà. Êðîìå òîãî, îáíàðóæåíû ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè êèøå÷íîé ïàëî÷êè è êëîñòðèäèé. Ïðåäñòîèò äîêàçàòü, ÷òî ýòî äåéñòâèòåëüíî äðåâíèå ãåíîìû. Îñíîâíàÿ ÷àñòü ðåçóëüòàòîâ äåðæèòñÿ â òàéíå äî îôèöèàëüíîé ïóáëèêàöèè. | | |
Semplinski Ñîîáùåíèé: 356 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2005 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 158 | Íàâåðõ ##
31 îêòÿáðÿ 2011 22:07 Strilbycki íàïèñàë: [q] òàê òàì êåëüòîâ è ãåðìàíöåâ íåò[/q]
Íó ðàçóìååòñÿ. È âîîáùå, âëàäåëåö "ðîãàòîãî" øëåìà âåñüìà ïîõîäèò íà Èñêàíäåðà äâóðîãîãî Êñòàòè, øóòêè-øóòêàìè, çíàêîìûé àðõåîëîã ðàññêàçûâàë, êàê âî âðåìåíà ×àóøåñêó â Ðóìûíèè, êåëüòñêèå øëåìû ïðîñòî âûáðàñûâàëè - íó íå ìîãëî áûòü òàì êåëüòîâ è âñå òóò --- http://www.semplinski.narod.ru
Äâîðÿíå Ñåìïëèíñêèå, Ïîòîöêèå, îäíîäâîðöû Áàòàåâû, Àêñåíîâû, Àëàòàðöåâû Íîâîõîïåðñêèé è Åíîòàåâñêèé óåçäû, ßðîâûå Êîíîòîïñêèé óåçä, Ãîðåíñêèå Îëüãîïîëüñêèé óåçä, Äåêàðòîâû ×åìáàðñêèé óåçä | | |
| kashub Ñîîáùåíèé: 220 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 104
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2 íîÿáðÿ 2011 13:38 Stan_is_love íàïèñàë: [q] Ñðåäíèé âîçðàñò ó äðåâíèõ áûë íåáîëüøèì èç-çà âûñîêîé äåòñêîé ñìåðòíîñòè. È ÷òî åìó íå æèòü äîëãî, åñëè âîëêè íå ñúåëè? Çóáû, âîí, è òå âñå íà ìåñòå, ïèòàíèå èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî çäîðîâîå, ðàöèîíàëüíîå, ãèïîäèíàìèè îòðîäÿñü íè ó êîãî íå áûëî. [/q]
Äà íåò, âîçðàñò ó íåãî äëÿ òîãî âðåìåíè ïðåêëîííûé, âîò íàïðèìåð äàííûå Àëåêñååâà ïî ñêèôàì: [ Èçîáðàæåíèå íà ñòîðîííåì ñàéòå: 47d783d40277.png ] Ïî ïîâîäó çäîðîâüÿ èìåííî ýòîãî ïåðñîíàæà: "Äîñòèãíóâ âîçðàñòà îêîëî 45 ëåò, Ýöè ñ÷èòàëñÿ îäíèì èç ñàìûõ ïîæèëûõ â ñâî¸ì îáùåñòâå. Åãî òåëî ïîêàçûâàëî ÿâíûå ïðèçíàêè ñòàðåíèÿ: ñóñòàâû áûëè èçíîøåíû, êðîâÿíûå ñîñóäû â ïðîöåññå çàèçâåñòêîâàíèÿ. Êðîìå òîãî, íå áûëî îáíàðóæåíî 12-îé ïàðû ð¸áåð, ÷òî ÿâëÿåòñÿ ðåäêîé àíîìàëèåé â íàøå âðåìÿ. Òàêæå íà òåëå åñòü ñëåäû ïîâðåæäåíèé, êîòîðûå Ýöè ïîëó÷èë âî âðåìÿ æèçíè: áûëè óñòàíîâëåíû õîðîøî çàæèâøèé ïåðåëîì ð¸áåð ñ ëåâîé ñòîðîíû ãðóäíîé êëåòêè è ïåðåëîì íîñà. Òàêæå íà ëåâîé íîãå áûë ïîâðåæä¸í áîëüøîé ïàëåö, ÷òî ìîãëî ñëó÷èòüñÿ â ðåçóëüòàòå îáìîðîæåíèÿ." --- ÑÖÑ Âåñüåãîíñêîãî (Ïíåâî, Õàáîöêîå, Äåëåäèíî, ×àìåðîâî), Áåæåöêîãî ( Õîíååâî, Ëþáîäèöû), Òâåðñêîãî (Îòðîêîâè÷è), Íîâîòîðîæñêîãî ( Òàëîæíÿ, Èëüèíñêîå ÷òî ïîä Âûøêîâîì), Ñòàðèöêîãî(Õîëìåö)
Îäíîäâîðöû Êóðñêîãî óåçäà(Âîðîáüåâêà, Ñåìåíîâêà) | | |
| kashub Ñîîáùåíèé: 220 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 104
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2 íîÿáðÿ 2011 13:54 2 íîÿáðÿ 2011 13:59 [q] Èíòåðåñíî. ñêîëüêî ó íåãî çà ïÿòü ñ ëèøíèì òûñÿ÷ ëåò ïîòîìêîâ? Ìèëëèàðä?[/q]
 ëó÷øåì ñëó÷àå òûñÿ÷è. Åãî ãàïëîãðóïïà G2a4 áîëüøàÿ ðåäêîñòü, è äàæå èç ýòîãî ìàëîãî ÷èñëà íå ôàêò ÷òî åñòü ïðÿìûå ïîòîìêè Îòöè. Æåñòîêèå âðåìåíà, æåñòîêèå íðàâû [q] Ìóòàöèÿ ñ ãîëóáûìè ãëàçàìè âîçíèêëà äî íåãî, 10000 íà Êàâêàçå, òàê ÷òî, ðåöåññèâíîìó ìåíüøèíñòâó îí, ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå, íå ïðàùóð. [/q]
Íà Êàâêàçå â òå âðåìåíà ëåä áûë. ×òî êàñàåòñÿ ìóòàöèè Ýéáåðãà, òî ñëîâî àâòîðó êîíöåïöèè: "The mutations responsible for blue eye colour most likely originate from the north-west part of the Black Sea region, where the great agricultural migration of the northern part of Europe took place in the Neolithic periods about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago," the researchers report in the journal Human Genetics. Professor Eiberg said that brown is the "default" colour for human eyes which results from a build-up of the dark skin pigment, melanin. However, in northern Europe a mutation arose in a gene known as OCA2 that disrupted melanin production in the iris and caused the eye colour to become blue." --- ÑÖÑ Âåñüåãîíñêîãî (Ïíåâî, Õàáîöêîå, Äåëåäèíî, ×àìåðîâî), Áåæåöêîãî ( Õîíååâî, Ëþáîäèöû), Òâåðñêîãî (Îòðîêîâè÷è), Íîâîòîðîæñêîãî ( Òàëîæíÿ, Èëüèíñêîå ÷òî ïîä Âûøêîâîì), Ñòàðèöêîãî(Õîëìåö)
Îäíîäâîðöû Êóðñêîãî óåçäà(Âîðîáüåâêà, Ñåìåíîâêà) | | |
Stan_is_love Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 11409 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 7381 | Íàâåðõ ##
6 íîÿáðÿ 2011 13:00 kashub íàïèñàë: [q] Äà íåò, âîçðàñò ó íåãî äëÿ òîãî âðåìåíè ïðåêëîííûé, âîò íàïðèìåð äàííûå Àëåêñååâà ïî ñêèôàì:[/q]
À êàê æå ëåãåíäàðíûé Ìàôóñàèë? Íå ñ ïîòîëêà æå, ïðàâî ñëîâî, âçÿëàñü ëåãåíäà. kashub íàïèñàë: [q] ñóñòàâû áûëè èçíîøåíû, êðîâÿíûå ñîñóäû â ïðîöåññå çàèçâåñòêîâàíèÿ. Êðîìå òîãî, íå áûëî îáíàðóæåíî 12-îé ïàðû ð¸áåð, ÷òî ÿâëÿåòñÿ ðåäêîé àíîìàëèåé â íàøå âðåìÿ.[/q]
Ýòî ÷òî æå ïîëó÷àåòñÿ? Ñîâðåìåííûå óñëîâèÿ æèçíè ( ãèïîäèíàìèÿ, êóðåíèå, àëêîãîëèçì, äóðíàÿ ýêîëîãèÿ, ÿäåðíûå èñïûòàíèÿ è ò. ä.) íå ñîêðàùàþò æèçíü, à íàîáîðîò, ïðîäëåâàþò? Ïî ïîâîäó ð¸áåð. Ó ìåíÿ ëåò äâàäöàòü íàçàä áûë ó÷åíèê, ó íåãî áûëî 13 ïàð ð¸áåð. Ìû åãî â ãðóïïå øóòÿ çâàëè Àäàì. --- Âñå ìîè ëè÷íûå äàííûå, ðàçìåùåíû ìíîþ íà ñàéòå äîáðîâîëüíî â òðåçâîì óìå è òâ¸ðäîé ïàìÿòè, ñïåöèàëüíî äëÿ ïîèñêà ðîäñòâåííèêîâ
Âûñîêîòåõíîëîãè÷íîå óäàëåíèå áîðîäàâîê íà pla3ma.ru
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Stan_is_love Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 11409 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 7381 | Íàâåðõ ##
6 íîÿáðÿ 2011 13:02 6 íîÿáðÿ 2011 13:03 kashub íàïèñàë: [q] Èíòåðåñíî. ñêîëüêî ó íåãî çà ïÿòü ñ ëèøíèì òûñÿ÷ ëåò ïîòîìêîâ? Ìèëëèàðä?
 ëó÷øåì ñëó÷àå òûñÿ÷è.[/q]
Çà îäíó òûñÿ÷ó ëåò ïîëó÷àåòñÿ ìèëëèîí, à çà ïÿòü? kashub íàïèñàë: [q] Íà Êàâêàçå â òå âðåìåíà ëåä áûë.[/q]
Ãäå? Íà Ýëüáðóñå? Òàê îí è ñåé÷àñ òàì. --- Âñå ìîè ëè÷íûå äàííûå, ðàçìåùåíû ìíîþ íà ñàéòå äîáðîâîëüíî â òðåçâîì óìå è òâ¸ðäîé ïàìÿòè, ñïåöèàëüíî äëÿ ïîèñêà ðîäñòâåííèêîâ
Âûñîêîòåõíîëîãè÷íîå óäàëåíèå áîðîäàâîê íà pla3ma.ru
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Balymba Óêðà¿íà Êàðïàòè Ñîîáùåíèé: 1165 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 1295 | Íàâåðõ ##
6 íîÿáðÿ 2011 13:33 Stan_is_love íàïèñàë: [q] Ìû åãî â ãðóïïå øóòÿ çâàëè Àäàì. [/q]
Ëîãè÷íåå áûëî áû "Àäàì áåç Åâû" --- Ñòåôóðàê, Ëåâêóí, ×óðåâè÷, Çåëåíåâè÷, ʳâíþê, Ëåñþê, Äàíèëþê, Êð³ï÷óê (Êðåï÷óê), Êóö, Ïîïèê, Âåðòèïîðîõ, Êîçüìèí, Ìåëüíè÷óê, Ðåâòþê, Øîâãåíþê, Ïàíüêî, Þðàùóê, ¥ðåùóê, Ãîð³øíèé, Âàíäæóðà, Æîëîá, Ïîâàð÷óê (Ïèâîâàð÷óê), Ëóá³â, ²ñàé÷óê (²ñà¿â)
Ïîïîâè÷-Òóðåöü | | |
Stan_is_love Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 11409 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 7381 | Íàâåðõ ##
6 íîÿáðÿ 2011 15:37 Balymba íàïèñàë: [q] Stan_is_love íàïèñàë:[q] Ìû åãî â ãðóïïå øóòÿ çâàëè Àäàì. [/q]
Ëîãè÷íåå áûëî áû "Àäàì áåç Åâû" [/q]
Ñ Åâîé, â ïå÷¸íêàõ! --- Âñå ìîè ëè÷íûå äàííûå, ðàçìåùåíû ìíîþ íà ñàéòå äîáðîâîëüíî â òðåçâîì óìå è òâ¸ðäîé ïàìÿòè, ñïåöèàëüíî äëÿ ïîèñêà ðîäñòâåííèêîâ
Âûñîêîòåõíîëîãè÷íîå óäàëåíèå áîðîäàâîê íà pla3ma.ru
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nmash Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 6479 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2007 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 3563 | Íàâåðõ ##
6 íîÿáðÿ 2011 16:33 kashub íàïèñàë: [q] Åãî ãàïëîãðóïïà G2a4 áîëüøàÿ ðåäêîñòü[/q]
C 23andme: Douglas Davy Maternal: T1, Paternal: G2a4 German - 48 percent - mostly immigrants from southwest Germany (Rhine, Palatine, Saar, Alsace) 1710 to 1760 to Pennsylvania English - 43 percent- Mostly Puritans who immigrated from southeast and southwest England 1620 to 1640 Scots - 6 percent - Scots from northern Ireland (Scots-Irish) and Scotland who immigrated 1710 to 1780 . French - 2 percent - Huguenots who immigrated after 1685. Swiss and Dutch - 1 percent - came with the Germans. jean claude meyer perez Ancestry:Northern Africa È åùå è åùå è åùå.... Paternal Haplogroup:G2a4 Region: Central Asia, Near East, Northern Africa, Europe Populations: Palestinians, Ossetians, Georgians, Moroccans Highlight: Haplogroup G probably originated in the Caucasus but made its way across the Near East, northern Africa, southern Europe, and even into China. Farther west, the presence of haplogroup G is much less uniform. In Europe there are concentrations of haplogroup G in northern Sardinia, where it reaches levels of about 25%, across northeastern Italy where G reaches about 12%, and in parts of southern France and the Tyrol region of western Austria. There are even a few examples of haplogroup G in Sweden, where it is generally found at levels of less than 4%. One exception is the province of eastern Sweden known as Uppsala, where G is found in 12% of men. But Europe wasn't the only destination of men bearing haplogroup G. Recent migrations from the Near East, perhaps dating to the Arab expansion of the early to mid 8th century AD, brought non-African paternal lineages into northern Africa. Today about one third of Moroccans bear haplogroup G. G and the Jewish Diaspora Outside of the Caucasus, haplogroup G is often found among various Jewish populations. About 10% of Ashkenazi men also have Y chromosomes belonging to G, an indication that the haplogroup was present among the small number of Jews who migrated into central and eastern Europe about 1,000 years ago. The Sephardic Jews of the Iberian Peninsula also bear haplogroup G at levels of about 16%. In this case, the arrival of G into the region may be tied to the expansion of seafaring Phoenicians who set up trade centers throughout the Mediterranean about 3,500 years ago. --- Íàòàëèÿ. U5a1d2a ˸òîâû (Ðÿç.), Ñóðèêîâû, Áàøèëîâû, Ñóðîâû (Ïîäìîñêîâüå), Ñóááîòèíû, Ñòîëÿðîâû, Àíäðèàíîâû, Äîëæåíêî (Åéñê), Ùåðáèíû (Ïîëòàâ. è Êóáàíü) Íåéãåáàóåð. http://rusgenealogy.clan.su/ Âñå ìîè è ìîèõ ïðåäêîâ äàííûå òîëüêî äëÿ ãåíåàëîãèè. | | |
valcha https://forum.vgd.ru/349/ Ñîîáùåíèé: 25444 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 21640 | Íàâåðõ ##
6 íîÿáðÿ 2011 16:38 kashub íàïèñàë: [q] Êðîìå òîãî, íå áûëî îáíàðóæåíî 12-îé ïàðû ð¸áåð,[/q]
Ýòî ÷òîáû òàëèÿ áûëà óæå! Àïëàçèÿ ðåáðà- ýòî îòñóòñòâèå ðåáðà ïîëíîå èëè ÷àñòè÷íîå (âðîæäåííàÿ àíîìàëèÿ). Áûâàåò îäíî- è äâóõ ñòîðîíåå. Àïëàçèÿ ðåáåð ñîïðîâîæäàåòñÿ íåäîðàçâèòèåì ñîîòâåòñòâóþùèõ ïîïåðå÷íûõ îòðîñòêîâ ïîçâîíêîâ, äåôîðìàöèåé ãðóäèíû, ñîñåäíèõ ðåáåð... ïîÿâëÿåòñÿ ñêîëèîç. Õèðóðãè÷åñêîå ëå÷åíèå ïîêàçàíî òîëüêî ïðè ãðóáûõ äåôîðìàöèÿõ ïîçâîíî÷íèêà. Ðåêîìåíäóåì äèíàìè÷åñêîå íàáëþäåíèå îðòîïåäà. Èíòåðåñíî â åãî ïëåìåíè áûëè îðòîïåäû? À ìîæåò ýòî òîò ñàìûé ó êîòîðîãî ðåáðà çàáðàëè äëÿ Åâû? --- Ïëàòíûì ïîèñêîì íå çàíèìàþñü.  ëè÷êå ÍÅ êîíñóëüòèðóþ. Çàäàâàéòå, ïîæ-ñòà, âîïðîñû â ñîîòâåòñòâóþùèõ òåìàõ, âàì òàì îòâåòßÒ.
ìèòîÃàïëîãðóïïà H1b | | |
Strilbyckiêîzàêû & øëÿõòà Ñòðѣëüáûöüê³, Îñòàïö³  Kyiv, Ruthenia // Êè¿â, Óêðà¿íà Ñîîáùåíèé: 3219 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2008 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 3351 | Íàâåðõ ##
6 íîÿáðÿ 2011 19:09 valcha íàïèñàë: [q] À ìîæåò ýòî òîò ñàìûé ó êîòîðîãî ðåáðà çàáðàëè äëÿ Åâû[/q]
Åâà áûëà-áû åìó ïðàïðà...(ìíîãî ðàç)...ïðàáàáóøêà. Îí ìîæåò áûòü ïðÿìûì ïîòîìêîì Àäàìà, ïðîøåäøåãî ïðîöåññ îáðåçàíèÿ ðåáðà. ---
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