×èãèíñêèå

CARINA
b]Xium
À ìíå ïî÷åìó-òî óäàëîñü íàéòè â òîì æå Ãóãëå:
è íà Ciginski, è íà Czyginski âûâàëèâàåòñÿ ïî äâà ñàéòà, îäèí èç íèõ - ãåíåàëîãè÷åñêèé:
http://www.genealogytoday.com/family/albums/C.html

Theodor, CARINA áëàãîäàðþ çà îòêëèê!

Íà ñêîëüêî ÿ ïîíèìàþ, äëÿ òîãî, ÷òî áû íàéòè ôàìèëèþ íà äðóãîì ÿçûêå íåîáõîäèìî ïðîèçâåñòè òðàíñëèòåðàöèþ. ß ïðî÷èòàë ñòàòüþ "Òðàíñëèòåðàöèÿ ôàìèëèè ñ êèðèëëèöû íà ëàòèíèöó" è âîò ÷òî ó ìåíÿ ïîëó÷èëîñü:

×èãèíñêèé                      - ðóññêèé,
Chiginskij                        - ISO-R9-1968,
Tchiginskii                       - ôðàíöóçñêèé,
Chiginskiy èëè Chiginsky - àíãëèéñêèé,
Tschiginskij                      - íåìåöêèé.

Ïî êàêîìó ïðèíöèïó âû ýòî äåëàëè?

Theodor, CARINA äåëî â òîì, ÷òî ÿ âíèìàòåëüíî ïîñìîòðåë âñå ññûëêè, íî ïîêà ÷åãî-òî ëîãè÷åñêè ðàçóìíîãî ó ìåíÿ íå ñîçðåëî, ïîýòîìó ÿ è çàãîâîðèë î òðàíñëèòåðàöèè.

Êñòàòè íà ñ÷åò:

 ïîëüñêîì èìååòñÿ äâà çâóêà "÷" - òâåðäûé è ìÿãêèé. Òâåðäûé ýòèìîëîãè÷åñêè ñîîòâåòñòâóåò íàøåìó "÷" è íà ïèñüìå èçîáðàæàåòñÿ cz (ïîñëå òâåðäîãî ïèøåòñÿ "ó" - û). Ìÿãêèé æå ýòèìîëîãè÷åñêè ñîîòâåòñòâóåò ðóññêîìó "òü", ïèøåòñÿ ëèáî "ñ" ñî çíà÷êîì óäàðåíèÿ, ëèáî ïðîñòî "ñ" - ïåðåä i è e.

Âñ¸ áîëåå-ìåíåå ïîíÿòíî, ñïàñèáî çà îáúÿñíåíèå. Çíà÷èò íàâåðíî âñå-òàêè Ciginski - ×èãèíñêèé, õîòÿ òàê êàê ÿ íå çíàþ òî÷íî, íå õî÷ó îãðàíè÷èâàòü îáëàñòü ïîèñêà. Âîò òàê...

(Ñîîáùåíèå îòðåäàêòèðîâàë Xium 2 ôåâ. 2005 1:39)

Ñàéò http://xium.narod.ru/ ðàñøèðèëñÿ. Íîâîñòè òóò http://xium.blogspot.com/

Äîáàâëåíû äåðåâüÿ ïî ôàìèëèÿì:

×èãèíñêèé

Ïðîäîëæàÿ ïîèñêè âñòðåòèë ÷åëîâåêà èç Ëèòâû ñ ôàìèëèåé ×èãèíñêàñ, êîòîðûé â ñâîþ î÷åðåäü ñêàçàë, ÷òî åãî ôàìèëèÿ ïî-ëèòîâñêè ïèøåòñÿ Čiginskas. Íà îñíîâå ýòîé èíôîðìàöèè íàø¸ë ñëåäóþùóþ ïåðåïèñêó:

[q]

To Jankauskas
by Mary A. Chiginsky Mary A. Chiginsky
This is my family thank you fo rthe information, I can now go forward
Posted on Nov 3, 2008, 4:51 AM

Chiginsky
by Jankauskas
Mary, You are welcome. I would add that according to the 1910 Census, Victoria, Anthony & Joseph came to the US in 1901. Carl J
Posted on Nov 3, 2008, 6:17 AM

To John Peters
by Mary A. Chiginsky Mary A. Chiginsky
John: This is my family, thank you. My dad's 1st wife was Pauline. How did you do this,and how did you determine the region they came from.
Posted on Nov 3, 2008, 4:46 AM

Chiginsky/Ciginskas
by John Peters John Peters
Mary,
I think you may be referring to Mr. Jankauskas' finding of Antanas Ciginskas' draft registration. The record is available at ancestry.com.
It is very likely that "Udryos, Suvoko, Russia/Lithuania" refers to the village of Udrija in the present day Alytus district of Lithuania. The possessive case of the village name is Udrijos, as in the phrase "Udrijos kaimas", "village of Udrija", and it was located in the former Suwalki gubernia. The village name would be pronounced "ood-REE-os", so the spelling in the record appears to be done phonetically rather than according to proper spelling. Likewise, Lithuanians do not use the letter "w" but "v" instead. So I believe that Antanas or the clerk he spoke with spelled Suwalki (Polish spelling of the Lithuanian, Suvalkija) phonetically as "Suvoko". This area prior to WWI was part of the Russian province or gubernia of Suwalki. The area is populated by people of both Polish and Lithuanian ethnic backgrounds.
The spelling of the name "Chiginsky" is a Polish spelling, because Lithuanian does not use the letter combination "ch" nor the ending "-y". The "ch" sound as in the English word "church" in Lithuanian is represented by the letter "c" with a little mark or 'birdie' over it (which is usually typed "c^" on Western keyboard).
The letter "c" without such a mark is pronounced "ts" as in the English word "hats." Polish uses "cz" for this sound. Lithuanian names end in "-s", "-ai", "-a" or "-a". So the correct Lithuanian spelling of the name would be C^iginskas.
So folks from the Suvalkija part of the world who emigrated to English speaking places like the U.S. used the sound of their name (whether Polish or Lithuanian) to create the spelling in English that they preferred. Thus their name "C^iginskas" or "Cziginsky" became "Chiginsky" or "Chiginski" or "Ciginskas."
John Peters
Posted on Nov 3, 2008, 7:25 AM


Chiginsky/C^iginskas
by John Peters John Peters
Mary,
I stumbled upon a web site where there is detailed information about the surname "Chaginsky". Whether or not it pertains to your ancestral name I do not know, but you can check it out at http://gutstein.net/index.html
It appears that a password is needed, so you may have to email the owner of the web site.
John Peters
Posted on Nov 3, 2008, 1:15 PM

Looking for namesakes in Pennsylvania (USA)
by Joe Bieliunas
Anyone who knows of a Bieliunas in the City of Philadelphia, PA or anywhere in Upstate PA, please contact me on these message boards. Thanx.
Posted on Nov 1, 2008, 11:33 PM

Chiginsky
by Mary A. Chiginsky Mary A. Chiginsky
I am looking for any information on my dad Joseph F. Chiginsky settled in Worcester MA. Entered the country through San Francisco, his brother was Tony. He entered in the early 1900s. His dad, my grandfather lived in PA and died in the 60s. and so did my father. It was told that granfather did work in a catholic parish in PA. Any information will be appreciated.
Posted on Nov 1, 2008, 5:36 PM

Joseph Francis Chiginsky
by Jankauskas
Mary, World war I draft card (1917-18): Joseph Francis Chiginsky dob 15 Jun 1894 b. Suwalki, Russia. re. 20 Alpine St. Worcester Mass. 1910 Census: 463 Wilbury St Worcester, Mass. Victoria "Chiganski" 43 yrs, son Anthony b. 1889, Russia, Joseph b. 1894, Russia, Annie, b. 1904, Mass. 1920 Census 65 Fox St, Worcster, Mass. Joseph Chiginsky 23 yrs, Pauline 21 yrs, Rita 2 yrs. 1930 Census: Lafayette St, Worcester, Mass. Joseph Chiginsky widowed, Rita 12 yrs, Dorothy 7 yrs. Hope this helps your search. Carl J
Posted on Nov 2, 2008, 7:44 AM

Chiginsky/Ciginskas
by John Peters John Peters
Mary,
There are many City Directories for the city of Worcester, Mass., dating back to the 1800's. I found the following entries from the earliest year to 1930 (not every year had such a directory):
1904: Anton Chiginski, wireworker, 20 Mitchell
1906, 1907, 1909, 1910: Andrew Chiginski, laborer, 463 Middlebury
1913: Andrew Chiginski, springmaker, Morgan Spring Co., 114 S. Harding
1918: Antantas Ciginskas, springmaker, 35 Lafayette
Victoria Ciginskas, widow of Andrew, 35 Lafayette
1920: Anne Chiginsky, Mrs., sausagemaker, Putnam Co., 35 Lafayette
1921: Annie Chiginsky, widow of Andrew, 35 Lafayette
Antoni Chiginsky, springworker, 35 Lafayette
Joseph Chiginsky, springworker, 35 Lafayette194
1922: Victoria Ciginskas, widow of Andrew, 35 Lafayette
1924: Anna Ciginskas, 35 Lafayette
Anthony Ciginskas, wireworker, 92 Ward
Victoria Ciginskas, widow of Andrew, 35 Lafayette
Isabel Chiginsky, sausagemaker, Putnam Co., 35 Lafayette
Joseph Chiginski, spring maker, 7 Lodi
1926: (indexed by street name and number)
35 Lafayette:
Joseph A. Sootkooks
John A. Runickas
Anna Ciginskas
Mrs. Victoria Ciginskas
7 Lodi:
Joseph Ciginski
Anthony Skiocinski
Jan Dziawiaczyn
Homer Gage
1929: Anthony Ciginskas (spouse Helen), wire worker, 29 Mendon
Joseph F. Chiginski (spouse Pauline E.), spring maker, 29 Spruce St.
Isabel Chiginski, sausage maker, 35 Lafayette
1930: Anthony Ciginskas (spouse Helen), spring maker, 61 Harrison
Isabel Chiginsky, sausage maker, Putnam Co., 35 Lafayette
Pauline Chiginsky (Mrs. Joseph F.) died Dec. 31, 1928, age 29
There are probably other entries for years after this, but I think this give you an idea of what is available on ancestry.com (free at your local public library). I leave it to you to figure out the relationships among these folks, but they seem to be definitely related. Also, note that the name "Chiginsky" is also spelled as it would in Lithuanian "C^iginskas" (the "c^" is pronounced like the "ch" in the English word "church." There are over 20 listings for people with this name (including the married woman's form of the name, C^iginskiene, and the unmarried woman's form of the name, C^iginskaite). Many of them appear to be from the south of Lithuania, near the border with present day Poland.
John Peters
Posted on Nov 2, 2008, 8:51 AM

Antanas Ciginskas
by Jankauskas
World War I Draft Card (1917-18) Antanas Ciginskas dob 4 Jan 1889, "Udryos, Suvoko, Russia/Lithuania". res 35 Lafayette, Worcester, Mass.
Posted on Nov 2, 2008, 11:22 AM

[/q]

Ñîáñòâåííî ÿ íåìíîæêî â øîêå. Ìîæåò òàêîå áûòü, ÷òî ñåìüÿ/÷åëîâåê ñ ôàìèëèåé Čiginskas/Ciginski/×èãèíñêèé ñ òåððèòîðèè íà ãðàíèöå Ïîëüøè è Ëèòâû (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suvalkai_region) ïåðåñåëèëèñü â Òóëó â 17/18/íà÷àëå 19 âåêà?  Òóëå îíè óæå òî÷íî áûëè îðóæåéíèêàìè (â 18 / íà÷àëå 19 âåêà).

Íàñêîëüêî òàêîå ïðåäïîëîæåíèå âåðîÿòíî? È â êàêîì íàïðàâëåíèè ìîæíî äâèãàòüñÿ, äëÿ òîãî ÷òîáû ïîäòâåðäèòü èëè îïðîâåðãíóòü äàííóþ ãèïîòåçó. Ïîäñêàæèòå, ïîæàëóéñòà.

Çàðàíåå áëàãîäàðåí.