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Âàø ãîëîñ ó÷òåí!
Îòïðàâèòü
ÐÃÈÀ. Ôîíä 1343 - Äâîðÿíå
Äåëà î äâîðÿíñòâå
adamrw Íîâè÷îê
Íàâåðõ ## 15 àâãóñòà 2020 12:45 Ïðèâåò
ß õîòåë áû ïîïðîñèòü âàøåé ïîìîùè â ïîèñêå äîêóìåíòîâ ìîèõ ïðåäêîâ â ÐÃÈÀ.
Ôàêòû:
1. ß äîáðàëñÿ äî äîêóìåíòà LVIA:
https://tiny.pl/75ctq Ïîñëåäíèé ïóíêò, ñîäåðæàùèé ññûëêè íà êîíêðåòíûå äîêóìåíòû è äàòû, ïðåäñòàâëÿåòñÿ îñîáåííî èíòðèãóþùèì.
2. ß äîáðàëñÿ äî ñïèñêà äåë, êàñàþùèõñÿ Âàñèëåâñêèñà:
https://tiny.pl/75cth Ïðåäëàãàÿ 1859 ãîä è Âèëüíþññêóþ/Êîâåíñêóþ ãóáåðíèè, ÿ áûë óáåæäåí, ÷òî íàéäó ñâîèõ ïðåäêîâ â äåëå 444. Îäíàêî âûÿñíèëîñü, ÷òî ýòî ñîâåðøåííî äðóãîé ðîä Âàñèëåâñêèõ (äàæå äðóãîé ãåðá).
Âòîðûì ïî ïðàâäèâîñòè êàçàëñÿ ñëó÷àé 451, íî ýòî òîæå äðóãàÿ ñåìüÿ.
Ãäå ÿ ìîãó ïîñìîòðåòü äàëüøå? Íà êàêèå ñëó÷àè ñòîèò îáðàòèòü âíèìàíèå?
Èìåþòñÿ ëè ãäå-íèáóäü äåêðåòû Ãåðîëüäà (âîçìîæíî, âû ìîãëè áû óâèäåòü òî, ÷òî íàïèñàíî ïîä íîìåðîì 10944 îò 30.11.1859)?
Äîñòóïíà ëè ãäå-íèáóäü óïîìÿíóòàÿ "Ïåðâàÿ ÷àñòü Êíèãè Äðåâíèõ"? Çíàÿ äàòó âúåçäà, ìîæíî ëè ÷òî-íèáóäü íàéòè?
Çàðàíåå ñïàñèáî çà ïîìîùü.
Àäàì
------------
Hi
I'd like to ask for your help in searching for my ancestors' documents in the RGIA.
The facts:
1. I got to the LVIA document:
https://tiny.pl/75ctq The last paragraph, containing references to specific documents and dates, seems particularly intriguing.
2. I have reached the list of cases concerning Vasilevskis:
https://tiny.pl/75cth. Suggesting the year 1859 and the Vilnius/Kowno Governorates, I was convinced that I would find my ancestors in the case 444. However, it turned out that this is a completely different family of Wasilewski family (even a different coat of arms).
The second in terms of truthfulness seemed to be case 451, but it is also a different family.
Where can I look further? Which cases to look at?
Are the Herold's decrees available somewhere (perhaps you could see what is written under number 10944 of 30.11.1859)?
Is the mentioned "First Part of the Book of Progeny" available somewhere? Knowing the date of entry, would anything be possible to find?
Thank you in advance for your help
Adam
sg59 Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 977
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2018 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 1388
Íàâåðõ ## 15 àâãóñòà 2020 13:12 adamrw íàïèñàë:
[q]
[/q]
À ãäå Âû ñìîòðåëè ñîäåðæàíèå äåë? Ïðèåçæàëè â àðõèâ? Ïî÷åìó äóìàåòå, ÷òî íå Âàøà ñåìüÿ? Íåò ïåðåñå÷åíèÿ ïî èìåíàì â ðîäîñëîâíîé? Ãäå ïîçæå ïðîæèâàëè Âàøè ïðåäêè - â Êîâåíñêîé ãóáåðíèè èëè æå óåõàëè â äðóãóþ ãóáåðíèþ?
Äàëåå íàèáîëåå ïåðñïåêòèâíûìè êàæóòñÿ äåëà 440, 445, 448.
---
Òåðñèíåö
Íàâåðõ ## 15 àâãóñòà 2020 13:18 adamrw íàïèñàë:
[q]
Èìåþòñÿ ëè ãäå-íèáóäü äåêðåòû Ãåðîëüäà (âîçìîæíî, âû ìîãëè áû óâèäåòü òî, ÷òî íàïèñàíî ïîä íîìåðîì 10944 îò 30.11.1859)?[/q]
Ýòî ìîæíî óâèäåòü â îïðåäåëåíèÿõ Äåïàðòàìåíòà Ãåðîëüäèè Ïðàâèòåëüñòâóþùåãî Ñåíàòà, õðàíÿùèõñÿ â ÐÃÈÀ, ôîíä 1343, îïèñü 52.
Ïðåäïîëîæèòåëüíî â äåëå 1019
Êðàéíèå äàòû 23-30 íîÿáðÿ 1859 ã.
adamrw íàïèñàë:
[q]
Ïðåäëàãàÿ 1859 ãîä è Âèëüíþññêóþ/Êîâåíñêóþ ãóáåðíèè, ÿ áûë óáåæäåí, ÷òî íàéäó ñâîèõ ïðåäêîâ â äåëå 444. Îäíàêî âûÿñíèëîñü, ÷òî ýòî ñîâåðøåííî äðóãîé ðîä Âàñèëåâñêèõ (äàæå äðóãîé ãåðá).[/q]
Âñå äåëà Âàñèëåâñêèõ Âèëåíñêîé è Êîâåíñêîé ãóáåðíèè (ÐÃÈÀ, ôîíä 1343, îïèñü 18, äåëà ¹¹ 438...451, 471) ìèêðîôèëüìèðîâàíû, Èõ ìîæíî ïðîñìîòðåòü çà îäèí äåíü â ÷èòàëüíîì çàëå è, ïðè íåîáõîäèìîñòè, ïåðåôîòîãðàôèðîâàòü.
LeonidZhuckoff Íîâè÷îê
Íàâåðõ ## 15 àâãóñòà 2020 13:20 Çäðàâñòâóéòå.
Òåðñèíåö
Íàâåðõ ## 15 àâãóñòà 2020 13:32 15 àâãóñòà 2020 13:33 LeonidZhuckoff íàïèñàë:
[q]
ß èùó ñâåäåíèÿ î ñâî¸ì äàë¸êîì ïðåäêå Äìèòðèè Èâàíîâè÷å Ëåáëå, çíàþ ÷òî îí ïðîæèâàë âî Âëàäèìèðñêîé ãóáåðíèè.[/q]
 ÐÃÈÀ åñòü äâà äâîðÿíñêèõ äåëà Ëåáëå:
- ÐÃÈÀ, ôîíä 1343, îïèñü 24, äåëî 1012, 1871 ãîä, Âëàäèìèðñêîé ãóáåðíèè;
- ÐÃÈÀ, ôîíä 1343, îïèñü 24, äåëî 1013, 1887 ãîä, Íèæåãîðîäñêîé ãóáåðíèè.
adamrw Íîâè÷îê
Íàâåðõ ## 15 àâãóñòà 2020 15:17 Áîëüøîå ñïàñèáî çà âàøè îòâåòû.
sg59 íàïèñàë:
[q]
À ãäå Âû ñìîòðåëè ñîäåðæàíèå äåë? Ïðèåçæàëè â àðõèâ? Ïî÷åìó äóìàåòå, ÷òî íå Âàøà ñåìüÿ? Íåò ïåðåñå÷åíèÿ ïî èìåíàì â ðîäîñëîâíîé? Ãäå ïîçæå ïðîæèâàëè Âàøè ïðåäêè - â Êîâåíñêîé ãóáåðíèè èëè æå óåõàëè â äðóãóþ ãóáåðíèþ?[/q]
Äåëà 444 è 451 áûëè ïðîâåðåíû â ÐÃÈÀ. Îíè âêëþ÷àþò â ñåáÿ èíôîðìàöèþ î ðàçíûõ ñåìüÿõ (äàæå ñ ðàçíûìè ãåðáàìè).
Ìîè ïðåäêè æèëè â Íîâîàëåêñàíäîðîâñêîì è Âèëêîìèðñêîì óåçäàõ.
Ñïàñèáî çà ñîâåò - ïîïðîøó ïðîâåðèòü äåëà 440, 445, 448.
---
Cases 444 and 451 were verified in RGIA. They include information about different families (even with different coats of arm).
My ancesores lived in Nowoaleksandorowsk and Wilkomir Couties.
Thank you for advise - I'll ask for verification cases 440, 445, 448.
Òåðñèíåö íàïèñàë:
[q]
Ýòî ìîæíî óâèäåòü â îïðåäåëåíèÿõ Äåïàðòàìåíòà Ãåðîëüäèè Ïðàâèòåëüñòâóþùåãî Ñåíàòà, õðàíÿùèõñÿ â ÐÃÈÀ, ôîíä 1343, îïèñü 52.[/q]
Ñïàñèáî.
ß ïîïðîáóþ ïðîâåðèòü ô. 1343, î. 52, ä. 1019.
ß õîòåë áû ðàíæèðîâàòü äåëà ïî íàèáîëåå âåðîÿòíûì.
---
Thank you.
I'll try to verify ô. 1343, î. 52, ä. 1019.
I'd like to rank the cases from the most likely.
Adam
Kseniapropisnova Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 224
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2020 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 130
Íàâåðõ ## 3 ñåíòÿáðÿ 2020 12:13 Äîáðûé äåíü,
Òåðñèíåö
Íàâåðõ ## 3 ñåíòÿáðÿ 2020 18:23 Kseniapropisnova íàïèñàë:
[q]
ß ïðàâèëüíî ïîíèìàþ, ÷òî åñëè íå óêàçàíî êîëè÷åñòâî ëèñòîâ â äåëå, òî èõ òàì ïðåäïîëîæèòåëüíî î÷åíü ìíîãî?[/q]
Ýòî äåëî î ïðè÷èñëåíèè ê äâîðÿíñêîìó ñîñòîÿíèþ
ïî ÷èíó è äàòèðîâàíî 1842 ãîäîì. Ïðåäïîëîæèòåëüíî îíî îòíîñèòåëüíî íåáîëüøîå. Ëèñòîâ â 50.
Kseniapropisnova Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 224
Íà ñàéòå ñ 2020 ã.
Ðåéòèíã: 130
Íàâåðõ ## 3 ñåíòÿáðÿ 2020 23:06 Òåðñèíåö íàïèñàë:
[q]
[q]
[/q]
[/q]
Ñïàñèáî, ïîïðîáóþ çàêàçàòü âûÿâëåíèå èíôîðìàöèè è ýëåêòðîííûå êîïèè, ïîêà â àðõèâ íå ïîïàñòü.
Òåðñèíåö
Íàâåðõ ## 3 ñåíòÿáðÿ 2020 23:18 Kseniapropisnova íàïèñàë:
[q]
ïîïðîáóþ çàêàçàòü âûÿâëåíèå èíôîðìàöèè è ýëåêòðîííûå êîïèè[/q]
Ïîãîäèòå ñ çàêàçîì êîïèé. Ìîæåò, ýòî äåëî íå ïðî Âàøèõ Øàøèíûõ.
