Êëèùåíêîâ Àðñåíòèé Èâàíîâè÷ 1919

walter íàïèñàë:

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Êëèùåíêîâ Àðñåíòèé Èâàíîâè÷ 1919 ã.ð. Õîòåë áû ïîëó÷èòü õîòü êàêóþ íèòî÷êó è âîçìîæíûå ïóòè äëÿ ïîèñêà ýòèõ ëþäåé.

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Ïî ÎÁÄ "Ìåìîðèàë"
Ôàìèëèÿ Êëèùåíêîâ
Èìÿ Àðñåíòèé
Îò÷åñòâî Èâàíîâè÷
Äàòà ðîæäåíèÿ/Âîçðàñò __.__.1919
Ìåñòî ðîæäåíèÿ Îðëîâñêàÿ îáë., Ñåâñêèé ð-í, ä. Ïîäëåñíûå Íîâîñåëêè
Äàòà è ìåñòî ïðèçûâà 19.02.1940 Ñåâñêèé ÐÂÊ, Îðëîâñêàÿ (ñ 05.07.1944 Áðÿíñêàÿ) îáë., Ñåâñêèé ð-í
Ïîñëåäíåå ìåñòî ñëóæáû 453 áàï 218 áàä
Âîèíñêîå çâàíèå ìë. ñåðæàíò
Ïðè÷èíà âûáûòèÿ ïðîïàë áåç âåñòè íà áîåâîì çàäàíèè
Äàòà âûáûòèÿ 08.08.1942
Íàçâàíèå èñòî÷íèêà äîíåñåíèÿ ÖÀÌÎ
Íîìåð ôîíäà èñòî÷íèêà èíôîðìàöèè 22709
Íîìåð îïèñè èñòî÷íèêà èíôîðìàöèè 597052
Íîìåð äåëà èñòî÷íèêà èíôîðìàöèè 1
https://obd-memorial.ru/html/info.htm?id=9720566


 áàçå ñîâåòñêèõ âîåííîïëåííûõ "Ñàêñîíñêèõ ìåìîðèàëîâ" åñòü Êëèùåíêîâ Àôàíàñèé Èâàíîâè÷ 1919 ã.ð.
Ôàìèëèÿ: Êëèùåíêîâ
Èìÿ: Àôàíàñèé
Îò÷åñòâî: Èâàí
Äàòà ðîæäåíèÿ: 03.03.1919
Äàòà ñìåðòè:
Ìåñòî ðîæäåíèÿ: Íîâîñ¸ëêè
Íàöèîíàëüíîñòü: ðóññêèé
Èäåíòèôèêàòîð: 75710

Ñîâïàäàåò Ôàìèëèÿ è îò÷åñòâî, ãîä è ìåñòî ðîæäåíèÿ!!!

ID 9720561
Ôàìèëèÿ Ëåôòåðîâ
Èìÿ Ãðèãîðèé
Îò÷åñòâî Ôåäîðîâè÷
Äàòà ðîæäåíèÿ/Âîçðàñò __.__.1921
Ìåñòî ðîæäåíèÿ Óêðàèíñêàÿ ÑÑÐ, Ñòàëèíñêàÿ îáë., ñ. Êîíñòàíòèíîïîëü
Äàòà è ìåñòî ïðèçûâà __.__.1939 Ìàíäðûêèíñêèé ÐÂÊ, Óêðàèíñêàÿ ÑÑÐ, Ñòàëèíñêàÿ îáë.
Ïîñëåäíåå ìåñòî ñëóæáû 453 áàï 218 áàä
Âîèíñêîå çâàíèå ìë. ñåðæàíò
Ïðè÷èíà âûáûòèÿ ïðîïàë áåç âåñòè
Äàòà âûáûòèÿ 08.08.1942 íå âåðíóëñÿ ñ áîåâîãî çàäàíèÿ
ìàòü Ëåôòåðîâà Ìàðãàðèòà Ïåòðîâíà, ïðîæ. Ñòàëèíñêàÿ îáë., ñ. Êîíñòàíòèíîïîëü, ñò. Ìàíäðûêèíî, óë. Ïðîëåòàðñêàÿ, 64
https://obd-memorial.ru/html/info.htm?id=9720561

walter íàïèñàë:

[q]

î ÷òî ïîäñêàçàòü â îòíîøåíèè (145 Fkiegerkorps

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Çäðàâñòâóéòå. À êàêóþ èíôîðìàöèþ ðàçûñêèåâàåòå ? Îïèøèòå ïîäðîáíåå.

Äîáðûõ Äåë!


îëüãà ïàíüêîâà íàïèñàë:

[q]

 êàðòî÷êå âîåííîïëåííîãî åñòü èìÿ æåíû èëè ìàòåðè Êëèùåíêîâà Íàòàëèÿ ñ. Íîâîñåëêè. Âàì ýòî ÷òî-íèáóäü ãîâîðèò?

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Ñâîäíàÿ èíôîðìàöèÿ ïî ÎÁÄ "Ìåìîðèàë":
Ôàìèëèÿ Êëèùåíêîâ
Èìÿ Àðñåíòèé
Îò÷åñòâî Èâàíîâè÷
Äàòà ðîæäåíèÿ/Âîçðàñò __.__.1919
Ìåñòî ðîæäåíèÿ Îðëîâñêàÿ îáë., Ñåâñêèé ð-í, ä. Ïîäëåñíûå Íîâîñåëêè
Äàòà è ìåñòî ïðèçûâà 19.02.1940 Ñåâñêèé ÐÂÊ, Îðëîâñêàÿ (ñ 05.07.1944 ýòà òåððèòîðèÿ â Áðÿíñêîé) îáë., Ñåâñêèé ð-í
Ïîñëåäíåå ìåñòî ñëóæáû ñòðåëîê-ðàäèñò ÄÁ-3 453 áàï 218 áàä
Âîèíñêîå çâàíèå ìë. ñåðæàíò
Ïðè÷èíà âûáûòèÿ ïðîïàë áåç âåñòè íà áîåâîì çàäàíèè
Äàòà âûáûòèÿ 08.08.1942
æåíà Êëèùåíêîâà Íàòàëüÿ Ñòåïàíîâíà
https://obd-memorial.ru/html/info.htm?id=9720566 èç ïîñëåâîåííîãî Äîíåñåíèÿ î áåçâîçâðàòíûõ ïîòåðÿõ 453 áàï 218 áàä çà ïåðèîä 1941 - 1945 ãã.
çàÿâëåíèå íà ðîçûñê ïîäàâàëà Àðãóíîâà Åëåíà Èâàíîâíà, íàçâàëàñü æåíîé (ñåñòðà? ïîäðóãà? îò÷åñòâà ñ Àðñåíèåì ñîâïàäàþò, çíàåò ãîä ïðèçûâà è òî÷íóþ äàòó ïðîïàæè, âåðîÿòíî, åé íàïèñàë êòî-òî èç áîåâûõ òîâàðèùåé Àðñåíèÿ)
https://obd-memorial.ru/html/info.htm?id=64131713 èç Äîíåñåíèÿ ïîñëåâîåííîãî ïåðèîäà Ñåâñêîãî ÐÂÊ Áðÿíñêîé îáë. îò 08.07.1947 ¹ 49378
Ïî óêàçàííûì äàííûì, îáå äàìû ïðîæèâàëè ïî ìåñòó ðîæäåíèÿ ñîëäàòà

Êàðòî÷êà âîåííîïëåííîãî Êëèùåíêîâà Àôàíàñèÿ Èâàíîâè÷à íà ÎÁÄ
https://obd-memorial.ru/html/info.htm?id=915465811

Alexzander71 áëèçîê ê èñòèíå - ïî èìåþùèìñÿ äàííûì, ïîõîæå, ÷òî ýòî îäíî ëèöî. Ïîäòâåðæäàòü - èíèöèàòîðó òåìû. Äåëî-òî çà ìàëûì: íàéòè ôîòî Àðñåíèÿ è ñðàâíèòü ñ ôîòî Àôàíàñèÿ íà êàðòî÷êå (ïîñëåäíÿÿ ôîòîãðàôèÿ âíèçó ñîîáùåíèÿ).

for walter
Ðåçóëüòàòû ñðàâíåíèÿ ôîòî âûëîæèòå ñþäà, â òåìó. È, íàïèøèòå çàïðîñ î ñóäüáå âîåííîïëåííîãî â Ìåæäóíàðîäíóþ ñëóæáó ðîçûñêà (Ãåðìàíèÿ) https://arolsen-archives.org/ru/

Stalag XVII A Êàéçåðøòàéíáðóê (Kaisersteinbruch), Áðóêíîéäîðô (Bruckneudorf) Àâñòðèÿ 10.1939-2.1945
ëàãåðíîå êïàäáèùå ó ñòàíöèè Âèëüôëåéíñäîðô (Wilfleinsdorf)
Îñîáåííîñòü ëàãåðÿ: ðóññêèì âîåííîïëåííûì ïîëàãàëîñü íàõîäèòñÿ ñòðîãî â ôîðìå ÐÊÊÀ áåç çíàêîâ ðàçëè÷èÿ, ñ íàðóêàâíîé íàøèâêîé áåëîãî öâåòà è àááðåâèàòóðîé "SU".

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ðåáÿòà ìîæåò êòî ÷òî ïîäñêàçàòü â îòíîøåíèè (145 Fkiegerkorps) 145 âîçäóøíîãî êîðïóñà èëè áðèãàäà êðàñíîé àðìèè êàê óêàçàíî â "Personalkarte I" âîåííîïëåííîãî (obergefreiter, ìë. ñåðæ.)

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 ÂÂÑ áûë 145 èñòðåáèòåëüíûé ïîëê, à êîðïóñà èëè äèâèçèè ñ òàêèì íîìåðîì íå âñòðå÷àë. Ê òîìó æå, â êàðòî÷êå âîåííîïëåííîãî ìîæåò áûòü è íåäîñòîâåðíàÿ èíôîðìàöèÿ, ñîîáùåííàÿ ñàìèì ïëåííûì èëè íåïðàâèëüíî ïîíÿòàÿ (ïåðåâåäåííàÿ) ïèñàðåì.
Ïðåäëàãàþ âñ¸-òàêè îðèåíòèðîâàòüñÿ íà äàííûå àðìåéñêèõ äîíåñåíèé î ïîòåðÿõ.

453-é áîìáàðäèðîâî÷íûé Áóäàïåøòñêèé îðäåíà Àëåêñàíäðà Íåâñêîãî àâèàöèîííûé ïîëê (áàï)

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 äåéñòâóþùåé àðìèè:

23.11.41 - 15.08.42
11.04.44 - 11.05.45

Ñôîðìèðîâàí 07.08.41 ã. èç ñîñòàâà 6 òáàï. Íà âîîðóæåíèè èìåë ñàìîëåòû ÄÁ-3.

Ñ àâãóñòà 1941 ã. âõîäèë â ñîñòàâ 132 áàä.

15.08.42 ã., ïîñëå çíà÷èòåëüíûõ ïîòåðü ïîëê âûâåäåí â òûë íà ïåðåôîðìèðîâàíèå. Îñòàâøèåñÿ ñàìîëåòû ñ ýêèïàæàìè ïåðåäàíû â 6 äáàï.

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http://allaces.ru/sssr/struct/p/bap453.php

Çàïèñü îò 08.08.1942 ã. èç Æóðíàëà áîåâûõ âûëåòîâ 132 áàä (ñêàíû - íèæå)

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Ïî ïðèêàçó Âîåííîãî ñîâåòà ÑÊÂÎ 1 ýêèïàæó ïðîèçâåñòè ðàçâåäêó âîéñê ïðîòèâíèêà â ðàéîíàõ Ñîâåòñêàÿ, Âîðîøèëîâñê, Áóäåíîâñê, Êèçëÿð
Ýêèïàæ ÄÁ-3: ëåò÷èê ñò. ñåðæàíò Èëüþøèí, ëåò÷èê-íàáëþäàòåëü ñò. ñåðæàíò Ñåðåáðÿííûé, ñòðåëîê-ðàäèñò ñåðæàíò Êëèùåíêî, 2-é ñòðåëîê ñåðæàíò Ëåôò¸ðîâ ñ çàäàíèÿ íå âåðíóëñÿ

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ñò. Ñîâåòñêàÿ íàõîäèòñÿ â ðàéîíå ãîðîäà Àðìàâèð.
ññûëêà íà ÆÁÄ https://pamyat-naroda.ru/docum...0453%20áàï

Èëþøèí Âèêòîð Çàõàðîâè÷ 1919
Ñåðåáðÿííûé Êàðë Ìèõàéëîâè÷ 1918
Êëèùåíêîâ Àðñåíèé Èâàíîâè÷ 1919
Ëåôòåðîâ Ãðèãîðèé Ôåäîðîâè÷ 1921

Íà îäíîì àâèàöèîííîì ôîðóìå â 2017 ãîäó âñïëûâàëà ñëåäóþùàÿ èíôîðìàöèÿ:

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By the way, I have some trace for the claim by Josip Helebrant on 8.8.1942, possibly a 453 BAP machine. It is much more inland but maybe you know researchers from there. According to Helebrant's personal note, the DB-3 crashed 3 km west of Armavir. Two crewmembers bailed out, but one committed suicide rather than being captured. Still, maybe Armavir has grown much in the meantime and 'swallowed' the crash place...

Helebrant was possibly the most honest claimer in 15./JG 52. 453 BAP did lose a crew on 8.8.1942. and its flight route was not exactly over Armavir but nearby. Still I am not 100% sure that it fell to Helebrant as I don't have the exact time of its flight in ÆÁÄ of 132 BAD (it can be found at Pamyat naroda). I have enclosed the passage from the ÆÁÄ and the page mentioning the loss of Viktor Ilyoshin from OBD Memorial, he is no.16 (data for remaining three crewmembers can be found as well).

I suppose Helebrant thought 3 km west of city border, I don't think that he calculated it from the city center as possibly even back then this would be inside the city. In 15./JG 52 war diary it is also written that the air battle was fought 'west of Armavir' and that the plane fell '3 km from Armavir'. More strange, in Oberkommando der Luftwaffe claim confirmation it says that the plane fell 8 km west of Armavir – maybe the Germans were counting from city center?

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http://iskatelklada.tuapse.ru/...avira.html
Íåìíîãî âîëüíûé ïåðåâîä:
Êñòàòè, ó ìåíÿ åñòü íåêîòîðûå ñîìíåíèÿ ê äàííûì äîêëàäà Èîñèïà Õåëåáðàíòà (15./JG 52 ) ïî ñîáûòèÿì 8.8.1942, âîçìîæíî, ýòî áûëà ìàøèíà 453 ÁÀÏ. Ãîðàçäî ðåçóëüòàòèâíåå áóäåò îáðàòèòüñÿ ê ìåñòíûì æèòåëÿì, âîçìîæíî, âû çíàåòå èññëåäîâàòåëåé îòòóäà? Ñîãëàñíî ëè÷íîé çàïèñêå Õåëåáðàíòà, ÄÁ-3 ðàçáèëñÿ â 3 êì çàïàäíåå Àðìàâèðà. Äâà ÷ëåíà ýêèïàæà ñïàñëèñü, íî îäèí ïîêîí÷èë æèçíü ñàìîóáèéñòâîì, à íå ïîïàë â ïëåí. Âñå-òàêè, ìîæåò áûòü, Àðìàâèð çà ýòî âðåìÿ ñèëüíî âûðîñ è "ïðîãëîòèë" ìåñòî êàòàñòðîôû?...

Õåëåáðàíò áûë, âîçìîæíî, ñàìûì îáúåêòèâíûì â ñîîáùåíèè î ãèáåëè ñàìîëåòà. 453 ÁÀÏ ïîòåðÿë ýêèïàæ 8.8.1942. è ìàðøðóò åãî ïîëåòà áûë íå ñîâñåì íàä Àðìàâèðîì, à ðÿäîì. Äî ñèõ ïîð ÿ íå íà 100% óâåðåí, ÷òî ýòîò ñàìîëåò óïàë íà ãëàçàõ Õåëåáðàíòà, òàê êàê ó ìåíÿ íåò òî÷íîãî âðåìåíè åãî ïîëåòà â ÆÁÄ 132 Bad (åãî ìîæíî íàéòè íà Ïàìÿòü íàðîäà). ß ïðèëîæèë îòðûâîê èç ÆÁÄ è ñòðàíèöó ñ óïîìèíàíèåì ïîòåðè Âèêòîðà Èëüþøèíà èç obd memorial, åãî ¹.16 (ìîæíî òàêæå íàéòè äàííûå ïî îñòàâøèìñÿ òðåì ÷ëåíàì ýêèïàæà).

ß ïîëàãàþ, Õåëåáðàíò äóìàë, ÷òî â 3 êì ê çàïàäó îò ãîðîäñêîé ãðàíèöû, ÿ íå äóìàþ, ÷òî îí ðàññ÷èòàë ðàññòîÿíèå îò öåíòðà ãîðîäà, ïîñêîëüêó, âîçìîæíî, äàæå òîãäà ýòî áûëî áû âíóòðè ãîðîäà.  15.Òàêæå íàïèñàíî, ÷òî âîçäóøíûé áîé âåëñÿ "çàïàäíåå Àðìàâèðà" è ÷òî ñàìîëåò óïàë "â 3 êì îò Àðìàâèðà". Áîëåå ñòðàííî, â Oberkommando der Luftwaffe óòâåðæäàþò, ÷òî èìåþòñÿ ïîäòâåðæäåíèå î÷åâèäöåâ, ÷òî ñàìîëåò óïàë â 8 êì ê çàïàäó îò Àðìàâèðà – ìîæåò áûòü, íåìöû ðàññ÷èòûâàëè ðàññòîÿíèå îò öåíòðà ãîðîäà?

Ëåò÷èê Josip Helebrant 1910 ã.ð. âîåâàë íà Ìå-Bf 109G-2, â ñîñòàâå èñòðåáèòåëüíîãî ïîäðàçäåëåíèÿ Jagdgeschwader 52 (15./JG 52), áûëî óêîìïëåêòîâàíî ïðåèìóùåñòâåííî õîðâàòàìè. Äîæèë äî 1990 ãîäà.
Èìåííî îí ñáèë áîìáàðäèðîâùèê ÄÁ-3 453 ÁÀÏ 08.08.1942 ã. â ðàéîíå Àðìàâèðà.

Èëþøèí Âèêòîð Çàõàðîâè÷ - ýòî äâîþðîäíûé áðàò ìîåé ïðàáàáóøêè.

Ðîäèòåëè: Èëþøèí Çàõàð Ôåäîðîâè÷ 1881 ã.ð. è Ïàðàñêåâà Èâàíîâíà Èëþøèíà 1897 ã.ð., óìåðëà 29.07.1955 ã.

Âèêòîð Çàõàðîâè÷ ðîäèëñÿ 29.01.1919.

Âîèíñêîå çâàíèå: ìë. ëåéòåíàíò

Ïîñëåäíåå ìåñòî ñëóæáû: 218 áàä 453 áàï
Äàòà âûáûòèÿ: 08.08.1942
Ïðè÷èíà âûáûòèÿ: ïðîïàë áåç âåñòè

Ïî äàííûì èç çàïèñè ÆÁÄ 132 áàä ñóùåñòâóåò çàïèñü ÷òî îäèí ýêèïàæ ñàìîë¸òà ÄÁ-3 ïîëó÷èë çàäàíèå ïðîèçâåñòè ðàçâåäêó òåðèòîðèè. Äàòà: 08.08.1942 ã, Çàäà÷à: «Ïî ïðèê. Âîåííîãî ñîâåòà ÑÊÂÎ 1 ýê. ïðîèçâåñòè ðàçâåòêó âîéñê ïð-êà â ð-íàõ Ñîâåòñêàÿ, Âîðîøèëîâñê, Áóä¸íîâñê, Êèçëÿð», Îáúåêò àòàêè: «Ðàçâåòêà», Ïîòåðè: «1 ýê. ë-ê ñò.ñåð. Èëþøèííà, ë-íàò Ñåðåáðÿíîãî, ñòð. ðàä. ñåðæ. Êëèùåíêî, 2-ãî ñòð. ñåðæ. Ëåôòåðîâà ñ çàäàíèÿ íå âîçâðàòèëñÿ».