Ëèïíèöêèé (ÄÍÊ-ïðîåêò)

Íàäåþñü ýòîò ïîñò âûçîâåò äîïîëíèòåëüíûé èíòåðåñ ê ýòîé òåìå, à òàêæå âûçîâåò æåñòêèå ñïîðû ñðåäè çíàòîêîâ, ÷òî íåñîìíåííî ïîñïîñîáñòâóåò ðàñêðóòêå òåìû… È òå, êòî çàõî÷åò ïîïëåâàòüñÿ â ìîþ ñòîðîíó, ïîæàëóéñòà, íå ñòåñíÿéòåñü â ýïèòåòàõ!
Òåêñòà ìíîãî, íàäî èíòåðåñîâàòüñÿ âîïðîñîì, ÷òîáû õîòÿ áû äî êîíöà äî÷èòàòü.

Ïîêà ìîé àíàëèç èãðèê õðîìîñîìû âûïîëíåí íà 67 ìàðêåðàõ. È ïîêà íå ñäåëàí áîëüøîé èãðèê íà 700 ìàðêåðîâ, ìîæíî íåìíîæêî ïðîàíàëèçèðîâàòü ñîâïàäåíöåâ ïðè 67…

Èòàê, íà ñåãîäíÿøíèé äåíü ó ìåíÿ åñòü ñëåäóþùèå áëèçêèå ñîâïàäåíöû íà 67 ìàðêåðàõ:
1. Êàðïåíêî Ñåðãåé Âëàäèìèðîâè÷, îòëè÷èå îò ìåíÿ â 6 ìàðêåðîâ (äîñòóï ê åãî ïîäðîáíîé èíôîðìàöèè çàêðûò, ïîýòîìó è ïîäðîáíîñòåé, ïîëó÷åííûõ ïðè ëè÷íîé ïåðåïèñêå, äàâàòü òóò íå ìîãó, êðîìå òîãî, ÷òî åãî DYS448 òàêàÿ æå, êàê è ó ìåíÿ).
2. Janos Antal, b. 1784.09.13 Hungary (äàëåå – Âåíãð) – îòëè÷èå îò ìåíÿ â 7 ìàðêåðàõ (DYS448=20 è DYS449=33);
3. Ignacy Pozniak, b. 1902 - d. 1985 (äàëåå – Ïîëÿê) - îòëè÷èå îò ìåíÿ â 7 ìàðêåðàõ (DYS448=20 è DYS449=33).

Ó ìåíÿ DYS448=19 è DYS449=33.
Ïî÷åìó ÿ îáðàùàþ âíèìàíèå íà ýòè çíà÷åíèÿ? Äåëî â òîì, ÷òî ñëàâÿíå, ó êîãî DYS448<=19 è DYS449<=30, èìåþò ïðîèñõîæäåíèå â îñíîâíîì ñ Áàëêàí (èñòîðèê Âÿ÷åñëàâ Íîñåâè÷ âîîáùå îòíîñèò èõ ê ïîòîìêàì ôðàêèéöåâ, ïåðåñåëèâøèõñÿ òóäà è îñëàâÿíåííûõ, ó äðóãîãî ñïåöèàëèñòà Âàäèìà Âåðåíè÷à äðóãîå ìíåíèå), à òå, ó êîãî DYS448>=20 è DYS449>=31, ñ÷èòàþòñÿ ñåâåðíûìè ñëàâÿíàìè, èõ ïðîèñõîæäåíèå - îò Âåíãðèè ñ Ïîëüøåé äî Áåëàðóñè, Óêðàèíû è Ðîññèè. Ìóòàöèÿ, ðàçäåëèâøàÿ ñåâåðíûõ è þæíûõ, ïðîèçîøëà ãäå-òî â êîíöå ïðåäûäóùåé ýðû, òî åñòü áîëüøå 2000 ëåò íàçàä. Ïðè òîì, ÷òî DYS448 – î÷åíü ìåäëåííàÿ â ïëàíå ìóòàöèé àëëåëü, çíà÷åíèå ïîâòîðîâ â íåé ïîçâîëÿåò óñëîâíî îòíîñèòü íîñèòåëåé èãðèê õðîìîñîì ê þæíîé èëè ñåâåðíîé âåòâè.
À òàê êàê ó ìåíÿ DYS448=19 è DYS449=33 (ñàì Çäåíüêî Ìàðêîâè÷ íàïèñàë, ÷òî íå ìîæåò ìåíÿ îòíåñòè íè ê îäíîé âåòâè), òî íàïðàøèâàåòñÿ âûâîä - ìóòàöèÿ íà DYS448 ñ 20 íà 19 ïðîèñõîäèëà è ó ñåâåðíûõ â áîëåå ïîçäíèé ïåðèîä, ÷òî, â îáùåì, íèêòî è íå îñïàðèâàåò…
Áîëüøèíñòâî ìîèõ áëèçêèõ ñîâïàäåíöåâ ïðåäñòàâèòåëè èìåííî ñåâåðíîé âåòâè ñëàâÿí. Ñîîòâåòñòâåííî, è ïðåäîê íàøèõ Ëèïíèöêèõ - ñåâåðÿíèí.

Òåïåðü, ìîæíî ëè ïðåïîëîæèòü, êàêîé ó íàñ áóäåò ñíèï? Òóò âñå óñëîâíî è ôàíòàçèéíî... Íî, ïîêà íå ñäåëàí áîëüøîé èãðèê, ñäåëàþ ñòàâêó íà A815… (Æàëêî íå ñ êåì ïîñïîðèòü).

À âîò ïî÷åìó:

Ñðàçó îáðàùàåò íà ñåáÿ âíèìàíèå Âåíãð. Åãî ñíèï I2a-S17250-A815-Y83661. Ðîä Àíòàëîâ äîâîëüíî ðàçâåòâëåííûé â Âåíãðèè. Ó ìåíÿ íåñêîëüêî ñîâïàäåíöåâ ñ ýòîé ôàìèëèåé. È ìåæäó ñîáîé ýòè ñîâïàäåíöû â î÷åíü òåñíîé ñâÿçè – êîëè÷åñòâî îòëè÷èé ìèíèìàëüíî. È ÷òî ñàìîå èíòåðåñíîå, åñòü ó íèõ ñâîé ãåðá, êîòîðûé òàêæå íàçûâàåòñÿ Àíòàë. Íà ãåðáå èçîáðàæåí, âèäèìî, èõ áðàâûé ïðåäîê, ñíèñêàâøèé ñëàâó â âîéíå ñ òóðêàìè è äàæå âçÿâøèé â ïëåí êîãî-òî èç íèõ, ÷òî è èçîáðàæåíî íà îäíîé èç äâóõ âåðñèé ãåðáà. Óñïåøíûìè äëÿ Âåíãðèè âîéíû ñ Îñìàíñêîé èìïåðèåé áûëè â 1400-õ ãîäà, à âîò â 1526 ãîäó ïîðàæåíèå âåíãðîâ ïðèâåëî ê ðàçäåëó êîðîëåâñòâà. Òàê âîò, ñóäÿ ïî âñåìó, ìîæíî ïðåäïîëîæèòü, ÷òî Àíòàëû æèëè íà òåððèòîðèè Âåíãðèè óæå â 1400-õ ãîäàõ.
Ìîå îòëè÷èå â ãåíàõ ñ Àíòàëàìè ïîêàçûâàåò ñ íåêîòîðîé âåðîÿòíîñòüþ ôàíòàñòè÷íîñòè, ÷òî íàø îáùèé ìóæñêîé ïðåäîê æèë â ïðîìåæóòêå ñ 1 140 ïî 1 660 ãîäû ñ íàèáîëåå âåðîÿòíîé äàòîé â 1 400 ãîäó. Ñêîðåå âñåãî æèë îí ãäå-òî â ïðîìåæóòêå ìåæäó 1 200 è 1 500 ãîäàìè. Òî÷íåå, ê ñîæàëåíèþ, ïîêà íå ïîñ÷èòàòü…
Ó Ïîëÿêà ñ Âåíãðîì âñåãî 6 îòëè÷èé, èõ îáùèé ïðåäîê æèë â ïðîìåæóòêå ñ 1 260 ïî 1 720 ãîäû ñ íàèáîëåå âåðîÿòíîé äàòîé â 1 490 ãîäó. Ñêîðåå âñåãî æèë îí ãäå-òî â ïðîìåæóòêå ìåæäó 1 300 è 1 550 ãîäàìè.
Òàêàÿ æå ðàçíèöà è ó ìåíÿ ñ Êàðïåíêî.

Òî åñòü ìîæíî ïîêà íàðèñîâàòü ñëåäóþùóþ êàðòèíó: â ðàéîíå 1200-õ ãîäîâ ãäå-òî â Âåíãðèè èëè íà þãå Ïîëüøè æèë îáùèé ïðåäîê ñî ñíèïîì A815-Y83661.  1200-1300-õ æå ãîäàõ ïðîèçîøëî ðàçäåëåíèå ðîäà îäíà âåòâü ñòàëà ïðåäêîâîé äëÿ Àíòàëîâ è Ïîëÿêà (êîòîðûå ðàçäåëèëèñü ãäå-òî â 1300-õ – 1400-õ ãîäàõ), âî âòîðîé âåòâè ïîñëå ïåðâîãî ðàçäåëåíèÿ â 1200-1300-õ ãîäàõ ïðîèçîøëà ìóòàöèÿ íà DYS448 ñ 20 íà 19, ïîñëå ÷åãî îïÿòü ïðîèçîøëî ðàçäåëåíèå ýòîé âåòâè îïÿòü æå ãäå-òî â 1300-1400-õ ãîäàõ, ïîòîìêè îäíîé èç ÷àñòåé êîòîðîé ñòàëè íàøèìè Ëèïíèöêèìè.
Ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå îäíî ìîæíî ñêàçàòü íàâåðíîå îòíîñèòåëüíî ïî÷òè ìîæåò áûòü òî÷íî – ïðåäîê Ëèïíèöêèõ ïî ìóæñêîé ëèíèè ïðèáûë íà òåððèòîðèþ Áåëàðóñè íå âìåñòå ñ ìèãðàöèÿìè ñåâåðíûõ ñëàâÿí â 600-800-õ ãîäàõ (êðèâè÷àìè, ðàäèìè÷àìè è äðåãîâè÷àìè), à ãîðàçäî ïîçæå, îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî â 1300- õ ãîäàõ. Ìîæåò è ïîçæå. Íî âðÿäëè ñèëüíî ðàíüøå. Òî åñòü ó ðîäà Ëèïíèöêèõ î÷åíü âåðîÿòíî íå ìåñòíîå ïðîèñõîæäåíèå.

 ýòîì ïëàíå âûçûâàåò èíòåðåñ ðàñøèôðîâêà îðàêóëà MDLP World-22 ðåçóëüòàòà ìîåãî àóòîñîìíîãî òåñòà, ãäå çàòåñàëèñü ñîðáû... Âðÿäëè ýòî ñèëüíî ïîêàçàòåëüíî, íî êòî çíàåò, ìîæåò ýòî ñëåä ïðîèñõîæäåíèÿ èìåííî ôàìèëüíîé ëèíèè?

1 Russian_V_derived @ 3.671520
2 Ukrainian-Center_derived @ 4.665570
3 Belarusian_V_derived @ 4.867339
4 Ukrainian-East_derived @ 4.937020
5 Russian_South_derived @ 5.084769
6 Polish_V_derived @ 5.191173
7 Russian_cossack_derived @ 5.198286
8 Ukrainian_V_derived @ 5.423987
9 Ukrainian_derived @ 5.859017
10 Sorb_derived @ 5.870532
11 Ukrainian-West_derived @ 6.336782
12 Russian_Center_derived @ 6.784342
13 Polish_derived @ 6.792924
14 Mordovian_derived @ 7.790964
15 Mordovian_V_derived @ 7.909937
16 Moldavian_derived @ 8.140259
17 Russian_North_derived @ 9.628304
18 Russian_derived @ 10.558619
19 Slovakian_derived @ 10.749254
20 Latvian_V_derived @ 12.023047

Â÷åðà çàêàçàë BigY-700. Îáåùàþò óæå â èþíå äàòü ðåçóëüòàò.

Ïîõîæå, ÷òî êîå-êòî íå îæèäàë òàêîãî áîëüøîãî êîëè÷åñòâà çàêàçîâ... Êîðî÷å, õîðîøî, åñëè â êîíöå ñåíòÿáðÿ äàäóò ðåçóëüòàò...

Dear FamilyTreeDNA Member,

We want to take this opportunity to give you an update on the status of your Big Y-700 results.

The Big Y-700 is an improvement to our older Big Y-500 product. Not only does it provide additional results, it also utilizes new technology and chemistry to produce those results. The older Big Y-500 product took about 8-10 weeks on average to process in the lab; however, with the release of Big Y-700, we have been working to improve this processing time.

As a result of nearly 6,000 upgrade orders to Big Y-700 many of you may be experiencing delays in your processing times, but we are working hard to resolve this and apologize for the delay.

The dates in the Awaiting Results section are based on when your test was batched. This time starts counting down as soon as your test is batched. Once we reach week 8, if your results have not posted, the date gets pushed out by two weeks. If they aren’t posted within the next two weeks, they get pushed out another two weeks and so forth. These dates are meant to be estimates for the average test, not guarantees of delivery for every customer.

If you are waiting on Big Y-700 results, the below chart is a better guide for when you may expect to receive your results. The below dates are estimates, not guarantees, but we are confident in these delivery times.

(íå áóäó âñòàâëÿòü êàðòèíêó - òàì ñóòü òàêàÿ, ÷òî êðàéíèé ñðîê - 30-å ñåíòÿáðÿ...)

Most brand new Y-DNA testers, meaning those who have not previously purchased any Y-DNA tests, are receiving Big Y-700 results in 10 weeks or less. Once we have moved past the above batch date ranges, we believe that processing time will be much quicker.

The lab has requested new samples from a number of customers. In the majority of these cases, we are reaching out to these customers directly. We strongly urge you to keep your mailing address up to date on each kit you manage in case we need to mail you a new sample collection kit.

You can find instructions for updating your contact information here.

We apologize to all customers who are experiencing delays with their Big Y-700 results. Delivering your results is a top priority.

Sincerely,
The FamilyTreeDNA Team

 ïîëå Big Y STR Differences ïî âåíãðó Àíòàëó ïîÿâèëîñü 4 of 393. Âòîðàÿ öèôðà - ýòî êîëè÷åñòâî ìàðêåðîâ, ïî êîòîðûì ïðîèçâîäèëîñü ñðàâíåíèå. Ïåðâàÿ öèôðà ýòî êîëè÷åñòâî íåñîâïàäåíèé. 4 - ýòî íå ãåíåòè÷åñêàÿ äèñòàíöèÿ â ìàðêåðàõ, ñâûøå 111-ãî. Ýòî íàäî ïîíèìàòü èìåííî êàê îòëè÷èå, îíî íå ïîêàçûâàåò êîëè÷åñòâî ïîêîëåíèé äî îáùåãî ïðåäêà.
Èíòåðåñíî, ÷òî åñëè âûãðóçèòü âñåõ ñîâïàäåíöåâ íà 12 ìàðêåðàõ ñ áîëüøèì èãðèêîì, òî ïîëó÷àåòñÿ, ÷òî 4 îòëè÷èÿ òîëüêî ó òåõ, êòî èç ãàïëîãðóïïû A815. Îñòàëüíûå èç äðóãèõ ãðóïï. Íî åñòü åùå Dr. Orbik ñ êîòîðûì 13 of 574 - îí èç À815. Õîòÿ åñòü è ( C/O: Daughter Lena) Prof. Dr. Omar Moussa Pasha, ñ êîòîðûì 13 of 579 è îí èç äðóãîé ãàïëîãðóïïû - Y4460. Âèäèìî, ïî ýòèì äâóì ìåíÿ ñðàâíèâàþò óæå ïî BigY-700, â òî âðåìÿ, êàê ñ îñòàëüíûìè ïî BigY-500.
Âðÿäëè òóò ïîÿâèëàñü êàêàÿ-òî áîëåå-ìåíåå êîíêðåòèêà. Îïÿòü âñå óêàçûâàåò ñêîðåå íà À815. Æäåì äàëüøå...
È ãåíåòè÷åñêàÿ äèñòàíöèÿ íà 12 ìàðêåðîâ, ðàâíàÿ 1, ïðè òîì, ÷òî Big Y STR Differences îòíîñèòåëüíî íå áîëüøèå - 4 of 375 - ýòî ãîâîðèò î òîì, ÷òî íà 700 ìàðêåðàõ âïîëíå ìîæåò âûñêî÷èòü è áîëüøå îòëè÷èé. Rainer Dohse - ýòî íåìåö.


Genetic Distance ↑ Big Y STR Differences Name Earliest Known Ancestor Y-DNA Haplogroup Terminal SNP Match Date

0 4 of 393
Mr. Sándor Antal
email FTDNA Tip note GEDCOM Viewer Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
Janos Antal, b. 1784.09.13 Hungary I-Y83661 Y83661 10/17/2017

0 4 of 389
Mr. Alexandru (Sandor) Antal
email FTDNA Tip note GEDCOM Viewer Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
Antal János I-Y83661 Y83661 8/14/2018

1 4 of 375
Rainer Dohse
email FTDNA Tip note GEDCOM Viewer Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
Johann Jochen Dose, before 1800 I-BY42196 BY42196 10/17/2017

1 7 of 395
Mr. Athanasios Ioannou Retsinas
email FTDNA Tip note Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
Retsinas, Sparta, Greece, b. 1821 I-Y60804 Y60804 10/17/2017

1 7 of 393
Mr. Janusz Stanislaw Sehen
email FTDNA Tip note GEDCOM Viewer Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
Jarosz Siehen b. abt 1480 and d. abt 1540 I-Y40662 Y40662 10/17/2017

1 7 of 390
Jonathan David Sher
email FTDNA Tip note GEDCOM Viewer Y-DNA67 FF Big Y
Hyman Schereshefsky(Kamenets-Litovsk), 1873-1956 I-A13654 A13654 10/17/2017

1 7 of 355
Mr. Gennady Mikhailovich Bokov
email FTDNA Tip note Y-DNA67 FF Big Y
Maxim Andreev Bokov, b. about 1667, Tobolsk I-BY182587 BY182587 10/17/2017

1 8 of 397
Raimo Kautiainen
email FTDNA Tip note GEDCOM Viewer Y-DNA67 FF Big Y
Unknown prisoner of war from the Soviet Union I-Y97246 Y97246 10/17/2017

1 8 of 366
Mr. YURI DANILOVICH TURINGE
email FTDNA Tip note Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
Òèìîôåé ÒÓÐÈÍÊÅ ~1700 ã.ð. - ßâăø 1500ã.ð. I-A7134 A7134 10/17/2017

1 9 of 365
Mr. Petros Salis c/o Antonios Kollias
email FTDNA Tip note Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
Christos Salis, Mandalo I-BY182587 BY182587 7/17/2018

1 10 of 390
Branko Ninic
email FTDNA Tip note Y-DNA111 Big Y
Risto Ninić, b.1830 I-BY152788 BY152788 10/23/2018

1 10 of 376
Alexey Solonin
email FTDNA Tip note Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
Petr Solonin, b. 1872 and d.1940 I-BY94806 BY94806 10/17/2017

1 10 of 362
Wright
Anthoni Banasiewicz (Banasick)1866-1908,Poland I-Y39505 Y39505 10/17/2017

1 12 of 368
Mr. Vladimir Victorovitch Xyonz
email FTDNA Tip note Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
Xyonz Fyodor Stepanovitch, b. 1900 and d. 1941 I-BY80448 BY80448 10/17/2017

1 13 of 579
( C/O: Daughter Lena) Prof. Dr. Omar Moussa Pasha
email FTDNA Tip note Y-DNA111 FF Big Y
I-Y4460 Y4460 10/17/2017

1 13 of 574
Dr. Orbik
Marcin Orbik, b.c. 1695, Tajno, Poland I-A815 A815 10/17/2017