Êòî æå èçîáðàæåí íà ïîðòðåòå ðàáîòû Òîí÷è?
OXAÍà÷èíàþùèé Countess  Ukraine, Kyiv Ñîîáùåíèé: 41 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 15 | Íàâåðõ ##
1 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 14:39Sidonie Potocka de Ligne Countess Sidonie Potocka de Ligne ( born Sidonie de Ligne ) Austrian wife of Count François Potocki . Portrait . SPdL: 8 December 1786 14 May 1828 . After a miniature by German artist Emmanuel Peter
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Oksana.
Èíòåðåñ ê Ïîòîöêèì, Ñòðîãàíîâûì, Ùåðáàòîâûì, Áîãäàíñêèì.
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OXAÍà÷èíàþùèé Countess Ukraine, Kyiv Ñîîáùåíèé: 41 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 15 | Íàâåðõ ##
1 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 14:48 À âîò åùå ÷òî âûäóìàëè: http://katalog.auktionshaus-we...uk/53/p/1/Miniatur Frauenbildnis: "Sidonie Gräfin Potocka de Ligne, geb. 1786 in Küstrin". Re. undtl. sign., um 1960. Bildnis einer jungen Frau in blauem Kleid. Ovaler Bildausschnitt, gewölbt verglast, breiter Rahmen mit Elfenbeinplättchen belegt, einige fehlen. Ges. 14 x 12 cm. ---
Oksana.
Èíòåðåñ ê Ïîòîöêèì, Ñòðîãàíîâûì, Ùåðáàòîâûì, Áîãäàíñêèì.
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Commeng Ìîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 918 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2010 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 315 | Íàâåðõ ##
2 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 11:41 2 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 11:42 OXA íàïèñàë: [q] Íà ýòîé ôîòîãðàôèè èçîáðàæåíà ðîäñòâåííèöà Ñîôèè Ïîòîöêîé Õåëåíà äå Ëèíü, Ïîòîöêàÿ èç Ìàññàëüñêèõ. Àâòîð Ñàëüâàòîð Òîí÷è.
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Îêñàíà, ñïàñèáî çà èíòåðåñíóþ òåìó! Ó ìåíÿ, îäíàêî âîïðîñ âîò êàêîé. Íà Âèêèïåäèè åñòü âîò ýòîò ïîðòðåò, ïîäïèñàííûé êàê ïîðòðåò Ñîôèè Ïîòîöêîé. È îí ÷åðòîâñêè ïîõîæ èìåííî íà âîñïðîèçâåäåííûé âàìè ïîðòðåò, "îøèáî÷íî" ïîäïèñàííûé òåì æå èìåíåì. Ëèáî ãëàçà ìåíÿ ïîäâîäÿò, ëèáî àâòîð êíèãè, èç êîòîðîãî âçÿò ïîðòðåò íàïóòàë êàê è îñòàëüíûå, ëèáî ÷òî-òî åùå. Íî ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ýòî ëåãêàÿ îäóòëîâàòîñòü, ãóñòûå áðîâè è ãëàçà íà âûêàòå âñå ïðèíàäëåæàò îäíîé è òî æå æåíùèíå. Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, íå íàøåë ôàìèëèè àâòîðà ýòîãî ïîðòðåòà:-(  Êñòàòè, îá âàøåì ïîðòðåòå åñòü èíôîðìàöèè â "Ñëîâàðå" Ðîâèíñêîãî, âèäåëè? PS. Óâàæàåìûå ìîäåðàòîðû, ìîæåò ïåðåíåñåì ýòó òåìó â "Ïîðòðåòíûå çàãàäêè"? ---
Âîïðîñû åâðîïåéñêîé ãåíåàëîãèè: ñêàíäàëû, èíòðèãè, ðàññëåäîâàíèÿ http://forum.vgd.ru/1127/ | | |
OXAÍà÷èíàþùèé Countess Ukraine, Kyiv Ñîîáùåíèé: 41 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 15 | Íàâåðõ ##
3 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 17:44 Commeng íàïèñàë: [q]
OXA íàïèñàë:[q] -(Êñòàòè, îá âàøåì ïîðòðåòå åñòü èíôîðìàöèè â "Ñëîâàðå" Ðîâèíñêîãî, âèäåëè? [/q]
Íåò, à ÷òî òàì? Áóäó áëàãîäàðíà çà èíôîðìàöèþ.
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Oksana.
Èíòåðåñ ê Ïîòîöêèì, Ñòðîãàíîâûì, Ùåðáàòîâûì, Áîãäàíñêèì.
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OXAÍà÷èíàþùèé Countess Ukraine, Kyiv Ñîîáùåíèé: 41 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 15 | Íàâåðõ ##
3 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 18:16 Ïî ïîâîäó ãëàç, òî ìíå îíà áåçóìíî ïîõîæà íà Õåëåíó. Ïëþñ Ãðèãîðèé Ñòðîãàíîâ ïèñàë, ïðî ïîòðåò Òîí÷è, ÷òî âñå åãî ñ÷èòàþò îøèáî÷íî èçîáðàæåíèåì åãî ðîäñòâåííèöû Ñîôèè Ïîòîöêîé, õîòÿ ýòî íå îòâå÷àåò äåéñòâèòåëüíîñòè. ---
Oksana.
Èíòåðåñ ê Ïîòîöêèì, Ñòðîãàíîâûì, Ùåðáàòîâûì, Áîãäàíñêèì.
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CommengÌîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 918 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2010 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 315 | Íàâåðõ ##
3 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 18:34 OXA íàïèñàë: [q] Commeng íàïèñàë:
[q]
OXA íàïèñàë:
[q]
-(Êñòàòè, îá âàøåì ïîðòðåòå åñòü èíôîðìàöèè â "Ñëîâàðå" Ðîâèíñêîãî, âèäåëè?
[/q]
Íåò, à ÷òî òàì? Áóäó áëàãîäàðíà çà èíôîðìàöèþ.[/q]
Èñòî÷íèê: Ðîâèíñêèé Ä.À. Ïîäðîáíûé ñëîâàðü ðóññêèõ ãðàâèðîâàííûõ ïîðòðåòîâ. Ìîñêâà, 1888 ã., Ò. III, ñòá. 1826-1827
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Âîïðîñû åâðîïåéñêîé ãåíåàëîãèè: ñêàíäàëû, èíòðèãè, ðàññëåäîâàíèÿ http://forum.vgd.ru/1127/ | | |
CommengÌîñêâà Ñîîáùåíèé: 918 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2010 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 315 | Íàâåðõ ##
3 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 19:00 OXA íàïèñàë: [q] Ïî ïîâîäó ãëàç, òî ìíå îíà áåçóìíî ïîõîæà íà Õåëåíó. Ïëþñ Ãðèãîðèé Ñòðîãàíîâ ïèñàë, ïðî ïîòðåò Òîí÷è, ÷òî âñå åãî ñ÷èòàþò îøèáî÷íî èçîáðàæåíèåì åãî ðîäñòâåííèöû Ñîôèè Ïîòîöêîé, õîòÿ ýòî íå îòâå÷àåò äåéñòâèòåëüíîñòè.[/q]
Çàïóòàííàÿ èñòîðèÿ. Âîò çäåñü, åñëè ÿ ïðàâèëüíî ïåðåâåë ñ ïîëüñêîãî, âûñêàçûâàåòñÿ ìûñëü, ÷òî òî÷íîãî ïîíèìàíèÿ, êòî èìåííî èçîáðàæåí, íåò. ---
Âîïðîñû åâðîïåéñêîé ãåíåàëîãèè: ñêàíäàëû, èíòðèãè, ðàññëåäîâàíèÿ http://forum.vgd.ru/1127/ | | |
OXAÍà÷èíàþùèé Countess Ukraine, Kyiv Ñîîáùåíèé: 41 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 15 | Íàâåðõ ##
3 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 19:41 Êàê ÿ ïîíèìàþ ïîäïèñü ïîä ôîòî, òî 1872 ãîä ýòî äàòà íàïèñàíèÿ ïîðòðåòà Òîí÷è. Íî ãäå-òî ÿ âèäåëà íà ôîòî ýòó ïîäïèñü, òàê ïîäïèñü ñîñòîèò èç äâóõ ÷àñòåé, è êàê ðàç ïîäïèñü "Ñîôèÿ" ïîäïèñàíî äðóãîé ðóêîé. Ïåðâîíà÷àëüíî áûëî íàïèñàíî ïðîñòî Ãðàôèíÿ Ïîòîöêàÿ", à ïîòîì äîïèñàíî "Ãðàôèíÿ Ñîôèÿ Ïîòîöêàÿ". Ïîèùó â áóìàãàõ ïîëüñêèå ñòàòüè ïî ýòîé òåìå. ---
Oksana.
Èíòåðåñ ê Ïîòîöêèì, Ñòðîãàíîâûì, Ùåðáàòîâûì, Áîãäàíñêèì.
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OXAÍà÷èíàþùèé Countess Ukraine, Kyiv Ñîîáùåíèé: 41 Íà ñàéòå ñ 2006 ã. Ðåéòèíã: 15 | Íàâåðõ ##
3 ôåâðàëÿ 2012 19:46Potocka Âîò òîæå ÷òî íàøëà: http://www.sztuka.com.pl/index.php?ac=103&id=31 (Õåëåíà Ïîòîöêàÿ), àóêöèîí. ß èì äàæå ïèñàëà, îíè ïîäòâåðæäàþò, ÷òî ñêëîííû âåðèòü â òî, ÷òî ýòî Õåëåíà. è âîò åùå ññûëêà http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...harsky.jpg"Countess Helena (or Sophie ?) Potocka," pastel. The Witt Library had believed this was a VLB, probably destroyed in Germany during World War II. However, the pastel (or a copy?) appeared in a private collection in the United States, and was later sold by Bonhams (London) as the work of Kucharski. Another copy was sold in 2005 in Warsaw, by auction house Sztuka, which considered the original to probably be the work of Salvatore Tonci (1756-1844), and which considered the sitter to not be Sofie Potocka, but rather Helena née Massalska, a wife of Wincenty Potocki. Lived 1766-1822. She was mistress to Jozef Anton Poniatowski (1763-1813), a nephew of the King of Poland. [1] Date vers 1786 ---
Oksana.
Èíòåðåñ ê Ïîòîöêèì, Ñòðîãàíîâûì, Ùåðáàòîâûì, Áîãäàíñêèì.
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7 íîÿáðÿ 2016 11:32 À ìíå ïîïàëàñü ðåâèçñêàÿ ñêàçêà 1795 î êðåñòüÿíàõ Ìîçûðñêîãî óåçäà Ìèíñêîé ãóáåðíèè âëàäåíèÿ êíÿæíû Àïîëëîíèè Ìàññàëüñêîé.
Äåëî ÍÈÀÁ 333/9/182
ÐÑ 1795 ã. ÐÑ êðåñòüÿí è øëÿõòû Ñëóöêîãî è äð. óåçäîâ
Ë.ä.381/203 äåð. Ìàí÷èö Ìîçûðñêîãî óåçäà, áûâøåé åçóèòñêîé, è ïîòîì îò Êîðîíû ïî Ïðèâèëåãèè Êîðîëåâñêîé, äàííîé 1777 ãîäà ïðîäàííîãî ïîêîéíîìó áèñêóïó Èãíàòèþ Ìàññàëüñêîìó çà ñóììó 488,888 çîëîòûõ ïîëüñêèõ è 26 ñ ½ ãðîøåé öåëîé êëþ÷ Ñíåäèíñêîé, à â òîì ÷èñëå è ïîìÿíóòûÿ äåðåâíè Ìàí÷èöû, ñ êîèõ ïëàòÿòñÿ â êàçíó åæåãîäíî ïî ïÿòè ïðîöåíòîâ, ïî ñìåðòè Êíÿçÿ Ìàññàëüñêîãî, ñîáîé ïî ïðàâó íàñëåäíîìó âî âëàäåíèè ó ïëåìåííèöû åãî Êíÿãèíè Àïîëîíèè äå Ëèãíå, à íûíå â çàìóæåñòâå ñîñòîÿùåé çà êîðîííûì ïîäêîìîðèåì Âèíöåíòèåì Ïîòîöêèì.
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