Looking For A Marriage Record

FuranNietchaieff написал:

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>> Ответ на сообщение пользователя siadeblanc от 9 августа 2023 14:18

It's really helpful and enlighten! It explains where "Danilovna" of Maria Danilovna Tolstoï come from when Danil Tosltoï does not exist. Marie therefore takes her patronymic from her father-in-law Danil Siniavsky.
Tanks for the link

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Hello. Turns out that the teacher Engel from the birth certificate of 1895 is the same person as the groom. However, in my opinion, it's quite possible that there could have been a previous marriage of Maria to a count Tolstoy, so she could get married to Nechaev as a widow.
Also, the witnesses on the Russian Orthodox marriages were usually male, if any woman was every found in this role. Grigory Nechaev in that record was very likely already married to Maria Danilovna, and since Maria was much older than Alexandra, she should be ideally married off before the younger sibling anyway.

>> Ответ на сообщение пользователя OlgaKob от 26 августа 2023 14:54

Good point about Engel, I didn't notice that. So Ignatiy Engel was a close friend of Grigoriy. Ignatiy married Alexandra and he was the godfather to the son of his friend Grigoriy and his wife Maria Tolstoy.
I don't necessarily agree on the fact that Maria was able to marry a first time with a Count Tolstoy then keep the title and his name then married Grigoriy Netchaiev. Mikhail Netchaiev's wife was a widow from a first marriage and yet she did not bear her husband's name, she bore her birth name. I think once you are widowed you get your birth name back.

if there really is a 1st marriage with a Count Tolstoy, then we must list all the Count Tolstoy who died between 1875 and 1885

FuranNietchaieff написал:

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Good morning,
I was able to get Mikhail Nietchaieff's immigration file.
Here is what is said for his parents: Grigoriy was born in 1849 in Moscow and died in 1918 in Kovno and Maria Tolstoy at Salovo castle in Moguileff on June 26, 1857.
In summary, Grigoriy was born on January 5, 1853 then on September 5, 1854 according to his wife Maria Tolstoy then in 1849 according to his son but always in Moscow. Both still agree on a death in 1918 in Kovno (I am still waiting for the return of the archives of Lithuania).
I couldn't find any information about the Salovo castle or any castle in Mogilev.

I also saw that Mikhail added Pietrovsky as a nickname. What does it mean ?

I also spotted the following addresses: 22 Tarasovska Street, kyiv, Ukraine. What address is that today? I thought it might be this one: Tarasivska St, 22, Kyiv, Ukraine
and 13 villa noblesse, Poland, but there I have no leads.

I do not know if this information can be useful or can lead us to a track but here it is anyway.

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I failed to find any trace of a Salov in the Mogilev province. Yet there was an estate of Counts Tolstoy near Chaus, it was called 'Jalova/Yalova' (Yalovo/Ялова/Ялово). Now it's a suburgan area of the town.
https://vk.com/wall-57721553_17176
https://chausy.gov.by/galereya/itemlist/category/390-gorod
https://www.radzima.org/ru/foto/39190.html

P.S. By 'chateau' they mean just an estate, no actual castle)) A manor, in other words.

FuranNietchaieff

Was Maria Danilovna actually a countess Tolstoy? Where exactly is it coming from?
I mean, if she was nee Sinyavskaya, but born at the Tolstoy estate of Jalovo, then it may be assumed that she (or maybe Alexandra too) was either the daughter of their serf (possibly a household servant) or born out of wedlock and somehow raised by the Sinyavsky family. How had the daughter of a Chausy merchant ended up being born at the place owned by Counts Tolstoy and claiming their last name, then?
If not for another marriage.
Theoretically, the Sinyavskys could be their former peasants. Maria was born in 1857, so before the liberation of serfs in Russia, while Alexandra was married in 1885, i.e. their father could be a well-off peasant or a manager of the estate and so had managed to become a merchant by 1885.
Anyway, you need to somehow get access to the Chausy metrical books, which should by in Belarusian archives. Unfortunately, I don't know how I can help.
On this forum there are a few threads on Belarusian genealogy, however, people don't really seem to be active in answering in languages other than Russian here, since not many people can actually speak anough English, I believe.

There are couple forum users who work at NIAB (National historical archive of Belarus) that apparently seem to actually reside in Belarus. However, I can't guarantee that they're reliable.

https://forum.vgd.ru/index.php...p;u=461336
https://forum.vgd.ru/index.php...p;u=375854

There's a catalog on NIAB's website, but it's in Russian (as the website itself):
https://fk.archives.gov.by/catalogue/9/1/
And a section dedicated to NIAB on this forum: https://forum.vgd.ru/468/10.ht...&desc=